what is the point of any succession law but elective?

[No idea]

I always go for primogeniture. It is quite easy to get very good heirs if you educate them and you "breed" your family members with genius people. After a couple of generarions, several of yuor heirs will get the genius trait from time to time. And, if it is the second the one who got it instead of the heir, well, you can always revert to scheming to take him out of the way.

 

[tuareg109]

I disagree. Elective is only good under two specific circunstances: If your dinastic heirs (those that continue the game for you) have absolutely no competition and if you are undoubtely the most powerful noble in your kingdom. Even a king is dethroned by powerful dukes. For an example on this, try playing France with elective. You will understand why primo is eventually always the way to go.

Try playing an Irish King of Ireland with half your dukes being Scottish, Norwegian, and Saxon. One of them is the Duke of Lothian and Northumberland (6 counties), another is Duke of Albany (4 counties), another is Duke of the Isles and Moray (-Isle of Man, 6 counties), another is Duke of Clydesdale (3 counties).
I disagree with you then: Elective is only good under one circumstance, and that is, that you're playing Crusader Kings II.

 

[Morwys]

I haven't tried France at all, so I can't comment on that, but I've played plenty of games as England/Britannia, Hispania, HRE or ERE. I always play elective, and I can't remember that I've lost a single election. I see no reason to play anything besides elective, in fact it's so overpowered that I sometimes use lesser succession laws like primo, just for roleplaying purposes.

All factions you've played fulfill the requirements I mentioned:

England starts in 1066 post-norman conquest with one of the most durable and strong dinasties of the game, IMHO. And after all the saxon noble start revolting, you can land most if not all of your family.

Hispania, as it doesn't exist in 1066, has to be created. All formed empires are strong and usually start post-early game, so you will have a lot of landed relatives.

HRE and ERE, despite appearances, are pretty easy and manageable, if you choose the right nobles to play with.

Like I said, primo works every time. Always. Elective only works in certain scenarios. Try playing France, Scotland, Sweden, Norway, Hungary, Poland, any minor count, any weaker duke (I recommend Duke of Anjou starting in 1066, it's a lot of fun)... those are some choices that simply don't work with elective.

EDIT:

Try playing an Irish King of Ireland with half your dukes being Scottish, Norwegian, and Saxon. One of them is the Duke of Lothian and Northumberland (6 counties), another is Duke of Albany (4 counties), another is Duke of the Isles and Moray (-Isle of Man, 6 counties), another is Duke of Clydesdale (3 counties).
I disagree with you then: Elective is only good under one circumstance, and that is, that you're playing Crusader Kings II.

I should point out that King of Ireland - or any created title above duke, for that matter - makes for an easy time using elective, since the prestige boost given, and the power it usually takes to do such things, makes it a breaze to manage elective.

 

[Alyiakal]

All factions you've played fulfill the requirements I mentioned:

England starts in 1066 post-norman conquest with one of the most durable and strong dinasties of the game, IMHO. And after all the saxon noble start revolting, you can land most if not all of your family.

Hispania, as it doesn't exist in 1066, has to be created. All formed empires are strong and usually start post-early game, so you will have a lot of landed relatives.

HRE and ERE, despite appearances, are pretty easy and manageable, if you choose the right nobles to play with.

Like I said, primo works every time. Always. Elective only works in certain scenarios. Try playing France, Scotland, Sweden, Norway, Hungary, Poland, any minor count, any weaker duke (I recommend Duke of Anjou starting in 1066, it's a lot of fun)... those are some choices that simply don't work with elective.

EDIT:


I should point out that King of Ireland - or any created title above duke, for that matter - makes for an easy time using elective, since the prestige boost given, and the power it usually takes to do such things, makes it a breaze to manage elective.

This argument doesn't really make sense at all. So you're saying Elective is bad in situations where you are going to have internal problems and strife anyways; yes, that's fairly obvious. But the better question is why are you letting it get to that point? You have plots, claim fabrications, and busting other people's plots. There's no reason at all you should let any of your vassals get powerful enough to put you in a position like that. France starts in a bad place with giant super dukes in Toulouse, Aquitane, and a few other places, but part of managing your realm is cutting those guys down to a manageable size so they don't take you out.

Even Primo is not going to save you in the situation that you let your vassals balloon out of control; those same vassals that would be a pain in Elective will also be a pain when they invite your ambitious younger brother to their court and launch a succession crisis.

 

[Talq]

The title of this thread is: What is the point of any succession law but elective?

He is saying there is a number of situations where elective doesn't always elect your preferred heir (corollary - you get a non-dynastic heir and you are screwed). You are not actually refuting him.

That said, elective is the way to go once you can get the conditions in place, and is somewhat too strong (especially once you get to 'I can elect any of 20 members of my dynasty - oh i'll pick the genius grey eminence'. Some of that is in combination with the games modelling of fertility (so unless you die young you get 5 kids, per wife) and allowing matrilineal marriages.

 

[Alyiakal]

Fair enough. It's beyond the scope of the topic to discuss fixing those situations, and I will agree that if you are in a rocky period like that, Primo may be safer (so you don't automatically lose).

 

[brxbrx]

In my game as Ireland, I own all provinces and hold all duchies. There is nobody above baron level, and I am the king. So, I chose elective succession because only I may vote. In the Holy Roman Empire, however, elective succession is up in the air. An unpopular emperor with a short reign can easily lose you the title of emperor for the next generation.