Yeah, the little bit of the novels I read back in the day were fine but the marriage between Davion & Steiner was a hard, bitter pill. At least for me 
What is the most dangerous and most vile faction?
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Just adding another voice to the chorus for "Individuals, not factions" - for the most part.
Frankly, there aren't many of the groups I'd want to live in by modern Western European/North American morality and standards! Frankly, not probably any. They've all got their rather vile points. I mean heck, there's literally SLAVE OWNING societies in this setting.
There are certainly 'worse' ones. But again, even in those there's some good individuals.
So yeah, in literally every group barring MAYBE SOME pirates, you can pretty much always find detestable people or even sub-groups, and brilliant points of light who are basically Paragons of virtue. And frankly, that's one of the great things about this setting that makes it feel more real despite having Giant Stompy Robots, the shades of grey.
Frankly, there aren't many of the groups I'd want to live in by modern Western European/North American morality and standards! Frankly, not probably any. They've all got their rather vile points. I mean heck, there's literally SLAVE OWNING societies in this setting.
There are certainly 'worse' ones. But again, even in those there's some good individuals.
So yeah, in literally every group barring MAYBE SOME pirates, you can pretty much always find detestable people or even sub-groups, and brilliant points of light who are basically Paragons of virtue. And frankly, that's one of the great things about this setting that makes it feel more real despite having Giant Stompy Robots, the shades of grey.
Draconian combine seemed like total jerks in the 1st succession war.
In the midst of an advance toward New Avalon, capital of the Federated Suns, Coordinator Minoru Kurita was assassinated by a sniper's laser rifle on Kentares IV. Minoru's son, Jinjiro Kurita learned about the assassination and told his military officers to, "kill them all". When one of them asked for a clarification of the order, the man was shot by Jinjiro's personal bodyguards. The Draconis military forces systematically executed nearly the entire population of Kentares IV in a brutal five-month campaign. Only a month into the operation, however, discipline began to break down and many Combine soldiers committed suicide as a result of the atrocities. Of the executions that Jinjiro personally watched, he forbade using modern weapons, instead preferring a sword to behead the captives. By the end of the operation, nearly ninety percent of the Kentares population was massacred, amounting to almost 52 million men, women, and children.
They did become better later on though. But maybe that is why there is so much hate (in lore) for them.
Pretty much everyone was a jerk to everyone else. 1st succession war still.
In 2808, the Chancellor of the Capellan Confederation, Ilsa Liao, renounced her predecessor's claim as First Lordship and offered her support for Prince Paul Davion's claim if the Federated Suns would cede the Chesterton region to the Confederation in perpetuity. Paul Davion instead ordered two units to seize the Capellan worlds of Ulan Batar and Farwell. Why the Prince took this action is still a matter of speculation, but his refusal delayed peace between the two houses for another thirteen years.
In the midst of an advance toward New Avalon, capital of the Federated Suns, Coordinator Minoru Kurita was assassinated by a sniper's laser rifle on Kentares IV. Minoru's son, Jinjiro Kurita learned about the assassination and told his military officers to, "kill them all". When one of them asked for a clarification of the order, the man was shot by Jinjiro's personal bodyguards. The Draconis military forces systematically executed nearly the entire population of Kentares IV in a brutal five-month campaign. Only a month into the operation, however, discipline began to break down and many Combine soldiers committed suicide as a result of the atrocities. Of the executions that Jinjiro personally watched, he forbade using modern weapons, instead preferring a sword to behead the captives. By the end of the operation, nearly ninety percent of the Kentares population was massacred, amounting to almost 52 million men, women, and children.
They did become better later on though. But maybe that is why there is so much hate (in lore) for them.
Pretty much everyone was a jerk to everyone else. 1st succession war still.
In 2808, the Chancellor of the Capellan Confederation, Ilsa Liao, renounced her predecessor's claim as First Lordship and offered her support for Prince Paul Davion's claim if the Federated Suns would cede the Chesterton region to the Confederation in perpetuity. Paul Davion instead ordered two units to seize the Capellan worlds of Ulan Batar and Farwell. Why the Prince took this action is still a matter of speculation, but his refusal delayed peace between the two houses for another thirteen years.
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What are you talking about? Comstar is a peaceful religious order devoted to maintaining communications between the stars.
I’m sure that nothing will happen in 3028 or so involving mass slaughter of civilians to keep information hidden away. That’s just crazy talk!
Of the big IS ones, Liao is basically the North Korea of the IS. If you are in the elite things aren't too bad... aside from the fact that the autocrats who run the place are dangerously paranoid (in fairness there usually are genuine plots against them going on).
Early on the Draconis were scenery chewing villains, but they mellowed a bit and instead became the Proud Warrior Race Guy faction.
Of the clans, the Smoke Jaguars were the Hate Sink. Exodus Road gives us the view from inside via a viewpoint character who is a mechwarrior who really believed the propaganda growing up and is constantly being screwed over by superiors. Combine that with their treatment of their own non-warriors and even worse their treatment of Spheroids... well there's a good reason no one helped them out when the time came.
Despicable people among pirates are the norm, can't think of any off hand who really stand out from the crowd. Basically anyone who leads a pirate band got there by being a bastard. Interestingly though a couple leaders of Pirate Kingdoms had some success at civilizing their regimes into respectable-ish (by low standards of the setting) states.
One thing I'll note, when I read the Sarna.net articles about what the Star League did in the Periphery I kind of feel the Star League deserved what they got. Special notice goes to The Babykiller who not only wasn't punished for his atrocities against the rather inoffensive, pacifist Outworlds Alliance he was awarded a chest full of medals. Depressingly realistic.
Nicholas Kerensky was no prize either, though he at least probably had a genuine belief in his strange utopia. His eugenics based caste system and warrior-culture could be argued to have been aimed at giving man's destructive urges a less catastrophic outlet than what was found in the successor states. But he was certainly not pulling any punches in pursuit of that goal.
It should be noted though that by 21st century standards pretty much every leader falls into a spectrum between "corrupt opportunist" to "war criminal." Even my beloved Outworlds Alliance would be considered a crooked pseudo-democracy (the President is always from the same family).
Early on the Draconis were scenery chewing villains, but they mellowed a bit and instead became the Proud Warrior Race Guy faction.
Of the clans, the Smoke Jaguars were the Hate Sink. Exodus Road gives us the view from inside via a viewpoint character who is a mechwarrior who really believed the propaganda growing up and is constantly being screwed over by superiors. Combine that with their treatment of their own non-warriors and even worse their treatment of Spheroids... well there's a good reason no one helped them out when the time came.
Despicable people among pirates are the norm, can't think of any off hand who really stand out from the crowd. Basically anyone who leads a pirate band got there by being a bastard. Interestingly though a couple leaders of Pirate Kingdoms had some success at civilizing their regimes into respectable-ish (by low standards of the setting) states.
One thing I'll note, when I read the Sarna.net articles about what the Star League did in the Periphery I kind of feel the Star League deserved what they got. Special notice goes to The Babykiller who not only wasn't punished for his atrocities against the rather inoffensive, pacifist Outworlds Alliance he was awarded a chest full of medals. Depressingly realistic.
Nicholas Kerensky was no prize either, though he at least probably had a genuine belief in his strange utopia. His eugenics based caste system and warrior-culture could be argued to have been aimed at giving man's destructive urges a less catastrophic outlet than what was found in the successor states. But he was certainly not pulling any punches in pursuit of that goal.
It should be noted though that by 21st century standards pretty much every leader falls into a spectrum between "corrupt opportunist" to "war criminal." Even my beloved Outworlds Alliance would be considered a crooked pseudo-democracy (the President is always from the same family).
Liao is more a mix of communist and warlord era China than north Korea, but with extra Russians.
As for Kurita, yeah. I'm currently (re) reading the Grey Death Legion stuff after several decades. They're barely recognizable- several are just murderous psychopaths for no real reason. But I think some of that is the author- it certainly is on the mech side of things- a locust has center stage for most of Thunder Rift and its constantly running hot and overheating, and that isn't even possible.
As for Kurita, yeah. I'm currently (re) reading the Grey Death Legion stuff after several decades. They're barely recognizable- several are just murderous psychopaths for no real reason. But I think some of that is the author- it certainly is on the mech side of things- a locust has center stage for most of Thunder Rift and its constantly running hot and overheating, and that isn't even possible.
Well there is at least an in-universe reason for the personality shift in the Combine, the Coordinator's son has a very different, more pragmatic world view. And the Clans forced them to accept outside help or be destroyed.
I know thematically/ethnically the Capellans are more Chinese, but I think in terms of how they interact with the world they are more North Korea, with St Ives as South Korea. I guess you could argue that it's more PRC and Taiwan (as seen by an American in the 80s). But mainland China isn't, and hasn't been, the kind of punching bag the Capellans are.
I'm not all that knowledgeable about the warlord era of China but I doubt they had their subjects kind of fanatical devotion the typical Capellan citizen seems to feel toward their leaders. Maoist China or modern North Korea seems more apt.
Probably has a cup holder and other lostech kitchen appliances in the cockpit. That stuff is not energy efficient.
Nicholas didn't believe in anything beyond his own superiority and power. His hypocrisy and narcissism destroyed any chance the Exodus and the Clans had of avoiding a descent into lunacy.
I haven't read all the books regarding the early days of the Clans, just what's on Sarna.net and other fansites. From there he looks like he occupies the "crazy and sincere" seat. Which historically is a much, much more dangerous thing.
Eh? China was exactly that sort of punching bag for decades.
As for fanatical devotion- it depends, largely on whose accounts you find more credible. The emperors and warlords certainly wanted to believe they had that kind of devotion, and their historians largely went along with that narrative.
Though the communist government would never like to admit it, they largely follow the traditional top down governing model of ancient China with a vast bureaucracy propping up a cult of personality , whether its an emperor, Mao or Xi (currently for life)
I should clarify that I mean the Peoples Republic of China. I know that's an eye-blink in Chinese History.
19th Century China was a much bigger punching bag than the Capellans ever were, but the PRC has actually done pretty well on that score. Even before their economic rise they were able to fight a superpower to a standstill in Korea. There's a reason they've been on the UNSC all this time, they haven't been a prize for the superpowers to carve up like they used to in living memory.
I suppose you could say that for most of BT history it was like Late Imperial/Warlord era China, but under Sun-tzu Liao it shifted into something more like "modern" (on the timescale of Chinese history) China. Doesn't quite align neatly, but I think it might be closer than North Korea.
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May I introduce you to the Taurian Concordat? Practically a Western European nation themselves. No slaves, personal freedom is a big thing out here. The only downside (if you could call it that) is national service but a few years in the army will be fine
Will need to read up on Outworlds Alliance again. Are they not similar to TC where the Calderons occupy the Protector seat but still need the approval of the Privy Council? Essentially they are a constitutional monarchy like the UK - You can be the top ruler as long we like what you tell us to do
I'll definitely end up trying to be as pirate as I can in one play through, but it's unlikely Grimm will offer contracts. He's on the other side of the inner sphere. Other than pirates of HBS's creation, the closest are the Marian Hegemony under Imperator Marius O'Reilly on the other side of the Magistracy of Canopus and the Tortuga Dominions under Dame Murderess Extraordinaire Paula "Lady Death" Trevaline on the other side of the Taurian Concordat. Might see them named in a specific "pirate" faction contract? That'd be fun.
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This ended up being a super cool informative topic! I feel more invested in the game now that i know some of the stories to these groups or individuals, like earlier stated i was wondering about the 'Griffith' point sacrificing your entire army for your own ultimate goal sort of thing.
So I guess the game won't be featuring most of what you guys brought up or is the story still unknown at this point? I wonder if you'll have tree branch decisions to make choices sort of like a choose your own adventure novel.
Also if failing can actually direct your story as well or is it just end game if you lose?
So I guess the game won't be featuring most of what you guys brought up or is the story still unknown at this point? I wonder if you'll have tree branch decisions to make choices sort of like a choose your own adventure novel.
Also if failing can actually direct your story as well or is it just end game if you lose?
May I introduce you to the Taurian Concordat? Practically a Western European nation themselves. No slaves, personal freedom is a big thing out here. The only downside (if you could call it that) is national service but a few years in the army will be fine
Will need to read up on Outworlds Alliance again. Are they not similar to TC where the Calderons occupy the Protector seat but still need the approval of the Privy Council? Essentially they are a constitutional monarchy like the UK - You can be the top ruler as long we like what you tell us to do
I think they skew even more Democratic than the Taurians. I think thers no legal need for their President to be an Avellar, and the President doesn't seem to have as much power as the Protector. But I dont have any sourcebooks or field manuals, so perhaps the Periphery ones explain just how this works.
Also, the Avellar dynasty was founded by an AFFS officer who grew sick of the perpetual war, moved to the Periphery and wrote a book about the stupidity of the Military-industrial complex. People liked it so much they elected him leader of the planetary government. And when they banded into an alliance with neighboring planets they elected him leader of that. He wasn't all that pleased, but supposed he had a duty to do the job, and kept getting reelected. And a dynasty was born!
Taurians probably won't like two things about the OA. One is that they didn't get the memo that they live in a war game, and still lean stubbornly towards pacifism. The other is that they are actually on good terms with the Davions, who helped them out against the aforementioned baby-killer. They maintain scrupulous neutrality (and a pretty badass aerospace force) to ensure their freedoms.
The bizarre thing is that it actually works pretty well. Which IMHO makes them pretty awesome.
Edit: It's weird, I'm 90% sure I read all this on Sarna, but when I went to get the link for you none of the stuff about the founding and the rise of the Avellars is there. It starts with the Reunification War.
Found some fan sites with more info, it seems the Constitution does "acknowledge the right of the Avellars to hold executive power" but they need unanimous consent from the Executive Parliment. Which is more restrictive even then the much-mocked FWL. And most power lies in the hands of planetary parliaments.
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Love all the balance and considered replies, my inner voice just kept shouting - ComStar
There was no sincerity. He was a cult leader who happily broke any rule, even his own, if it furthered his ascension (for instance he almost certainly orchestrated the assassination of his younger brother to eliminate a threat to his power base).
The Wolverine's called him on it openly. He retaliated with genocide and a re-write of the history of the Clans to blame them for his own crimes and bullshit.