What is the BEST set of national ideas?

[Kwami]

The wiki lists Prussia's "Army Professionalism" as +1.00 morale. Is that a wiki error, or was this idea not changed to a percentage in 1.2 like the other morale bonuses?

 

[brifbates]

counts for

In EU4, only one university counts for the tech cost reduction.

Not true.

At game start tech levels cost Tuscany 480 MP (600-20%; 10% for imperial integrity, 5% each for the two universities)

 

[ringhloth]

The wiki lists Prussia's "Army Professionalism" as +1.00 morale. Is that a wiki error, or was this idea not changed to a percentage in 1.2 like the other morale bonuses?

It's an error. It was changed to 33%

 

[Novacat]

It's an error. It was changed to 33%

Not so much an error as outdated information. It used to be that morale bonuses were additive, now they are multiplicative.

 

[Kwami]

It's an error. It was changed to 33%

I've made this change on the wiki.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Not true.

At game start tech levels cost Tuscany 480 MP (600-20%; 10% for imperial integrity, 5% each for the two universities)

Hmm, so you can't build a 2nd university, and any universities you conquer are destroyed, but you can start with 2 and get -10%? Does England now start with 2 then?

 

[General Baker]

(P.S.
* http://eu4wiki.com/Unique_national_ideas - article with *all* unique idea groups
* http://eu4wiki.com/Unique_national_idea_bonuses - article that lists all unique NIs by effect)

 

[Zardnaar]

Tuscany is a very nice nation to play as.

 

[MiracleTortoise]

Has anyone played with a nation that gives yearly papal influence? That sounds like the weakest possible bonus.

I played a game as Ireland. The reformation converted all of my provinces to protestant within a year. I converted. The idea was therefore utterly empty.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I played a game as Ireland. The reformation converted all of my provinces to protestant within a year. I converted. The idea was therefore utterly empty.

Ireland should probably get a modifier like Iberia and Italy to not convert as readily.

 

[trojan1234]

Let's see which ideas are best for saving monach powers.

-5% tech cost : Total tech costs is 96*600 so 5% is 96*30 but we should consider the time idea unlocked. How much MPs are saved with -5% tech cost is roughly estimated as followings.

-5% tech cost at #1 can be achieved when adm/dip/mil techs are around 4/2/4. Unlock Adm tech 4. Open diplo idea group for the first idea, for example. Spend 1200 dip powers into ideas for #1 advance while halt tech progress to maximize saving. 86*30 = 2580 can be saved.
#2 can be achieved when techs are around 6/2/6. Need 1200 more dip powers for 6th idea but cannot save adm/mil powers so spend them into techs already.So 82*30 = 2460 can be saved.
#3 can be achieved when techs are around 7/3/6. Unlock adm tech 7 and open mil idea group for the second idea group. Need 800 mil / 400 dip powers for #3 unlocked. But cannot save 400 dip powers anymore. In this case, 80*30 = 2400 can be saved.
#4 can be achieved when techs are around 9/5/6. Need 1200 mil powers for 12th idea but cannot save adm/dip powers so spend them into techs. 76*30 = 2280 can be saved.
Similarly, 74*30 = 2220 can be saved with -5% tech cost at #5, 70*30 = 2100 at #6, and 68*30 = 2040 at #7


-10% tech cost are only available for Bohemia #5(4440 MPs), France #6(4200 MPs), Russia #7(4080 MPs).


Idea cost is much easier to calculate. Total idea cost is 56*400 = 22400 so 10% is 2240.
56*40 = 2240 MPs can be saved with -10% idea cost at #0. 53*40 = 2120 at #1. 50*40 = 2000 at #2. 47*40 = 1880 at #3 44*40 = 1760 at #4. 41*40 = 1640 at #5. 38*40 = 1520 at #6. 35*40 = 1400 at #7.

Okay. -10% tech cost is the best in terms of MPs saving. 4440 ~ 4000 MPs saved by one unique national idea.
Second tiers are countries with -5% tech cost + -10% idea cost. Milan, Korea, Granada, and tuscan(-5% for both tech and idea).
Milan( -10% idea at #1, -5% tech at #5) can save 53*40 + 74*30 = 4340 MPs. Korea( -5% tech at #1, -10% idea at #6) can save 86*30 + 38*40 = 4120 MPs. Granada(-5% tech at #3, -10% idea at #7) can save 80*30 + 35*40 = 3800 MPs. Tuscany(-5% tech -5% idea at #1) can save 86*30 + 53*20 = 3640 MPs.


Other nations with either -5% tech cost or -10% idea cost are the 3rd tiers in terms of MPs.


This is a rough estimation because exact amount of MPs saved by -5% tech is quite situational. But I hope this estimation help us to figure out top tiers and 2nd tiers in terms of MPs saving.

 

[blindx0r]

That's what I thought too when I just read it. But when you play with it, specifically Spain, let's say you have 4 cardinals and you are the papal controller. This gives you a total of:

Stability Cost Modifier: -5%
Diplomats: +1
Yearly Prestige: +1.00
Possible Advisors: +2
Yearly Papal Influence: +2.00
Leaders without Upkeep: +1
Yearly Prestige: +0.8
Yearly Legitimacy: +2
Technology Cost Modifier: -4.0%

It also excludes someone else from getting those bonuses. Pretty nice to have I'd say.

Why stop at 4? :laugh:

 

[balmung60]

Hmm, so you can't build a 2nd university, and any universities you conquer are destroyed, but you can start with 2 and get -10%? Does England now start with 2 then?

I think that only Tuscany starts with two, but you can get more if you export a CK II game because it doesn't remove any (or at least all) pre-existing Univeristies. As a rather large Francia, I wound up with 3 universities (one in France and two in Italy) when I exported.

 

[ringhloth]

-snip-

For context, you'll make 126,000 MP in a game.

 

[DCyDe]

Nepal, hands down, no other national ideas can beat that. Combine that with 2 military idea groups and you are unstoppable.

 

[ringhloth]

Nepal, hands down, no other national ideas can beat that.

Compared to Prussia, taking out everything they both have:

Prussia gets -25% covert action relation impact, +10% tax, -10% stab, -1% army tradition decay, +15% infantry ability, +13% national manpower, -25% recruit time, +5% production efficiency, +1 tolerance of heretics, +10% discipline.

Nepal gets +1 siege, +20% fort defense, +2 diplo rep, +33% forcelimits, +20% manpower recovery.

It's competitive, but not hands down.

 

[Dragonknight2]

Snip

Not sure why people are concentrating on the MP aspect of Russia's NIs. Sure its pretty good, but with the 1.2.2 changes, MP drains are way down (mid/late battles have very low casulties compared to before). The best aspects of Russia's NI are +50% forcelimits, -50% inf cost (traditions+NI), -10% tech cost and -15% coring cost, with a heavy emphasis on forcelimits. Most battles atm are morale slugfests, and for that numbers are king. With defensive (hugely buffed in recent patches above what it already was), russia can win battles with no discipline at all just throwing 2x numbers at you. Plus MP is not an issue. IMO Russia has the best NI's, and is best suited to exploit them (can get huge quite easily with few natural competitors. The main weakness I can see is a lack of a morale bonus, but only a few countries have that in NI anyway (france, bb, poland).

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Not sure why people are concentrating on the MP aspect of Russia's NIs. Sure its pretty good, but with the 1.2.2 changes, MP drains are way down (mid/late battles have very low casulties compared to before). The best aspects of Russia's NI are +50% forcelimits, -50% inf cost (traditions+NI), -10% tech cost and -15% coring cost, with a heavy emphasis on forcelimits. Most battles atm are morale slugfests, and for that numbers are king. With defensive (hugely buffed in recent patches above what it already was), russia can win battles with no discipline at all just throwing 2x numbers at you. Plus MP is not an issue. IMO Russia has the best NI's, and is best suited to exploit them (can get huge quite easily with few natural competitors. The main weakness I can see is a lack of a morale bonus, but only a few countries have that in NI anyway (france, bb, poland).

I don't know about others, but the reason I focus on the manpower aspects is because they allow me the playstyle I prefer - solving problems by piling up the bodies, my own soldiers or others, with minimum downtime between wars. The greater the manpower pool, the less casualties are a concern, whether for being sure that you have reinforcements or for minimizing the war exhaustion you take from casualties. Finally, having way more manpower than you need if you play carefully allows you to use assaults on unbreached fortresses liberally, which speeds up wars immensely and concentrates casualties during a few bloody actions during the short war rather than spreading them out over a long way where sieges are pursued everywhere.

Of course, if you aren't going to be playing "It all belongs to Mother Russia" style but intend to play carefully, manpower is less of a concern. As for the +50% force limits, while certainly nice at all times and very strong in the early game, there's nothing inherently wrong with going a hundred, hundred-and-fifty regiments of infantry over your force limit once you get going in the mid-game, because your taxation and production base can easily finance that (in a Russian singleplayer conquest game, that is. Other playstyle or multiplayer where you face real opposition rather than AIs, that's another matter.)

So for me, the strongest things Russia's NI's bring to the table is the manpower and the infantry cost reduction. These play so very, very, well together. United they allow me to solve any problem with brute force and to finance armies way beyond anything that is even remotely reasonable, and they combine very, very, well with the quality/quantity/economic ideas combination.

 

[trojan1234]

For context, you'll make 126,000 MP in a game.

Most nations will make around 100k MPs in a game. Saving 4k means 4% more MPs than others, which is a significant difference.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Not sure why people are concentrating on the MP aspect of Russia's NIs. Sure its pretty good, but with the 1.2.2 changes, MP drains are way down (mid/late battles have very low casulties compared to before). The best aspects of Russia's NI are +50% forcelimits, -50% inf cost (traditions+NI), -10% tech cost and -15% coring cost, with a heavy emphasis on forcelimits. Most battles atm are morale slugfests, and for that numbers are king. With defensive (hugely buffed in recent patches above what it already was), russia can win battles with no discipline at all just throwing 2x numbers at you. Plus MP is not an issue. IMO Russia has the best NI's, and is best suited to exploit them (can get huge quite easily with few natural competitors. The main weakness I can see is a lack of a morale bonus, but only a few countries have that in NI anyway (france, bb, poland).

What is BB?