• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

szmik

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Kriegsspieler

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Victoria 2 -- now and forever ("forever" because apparently there will never be a Vicky 3). By far the best study of history they've ever attempted. A brilliant game.

CK2 is a fine game if RPG is what matters most to you. It doesn't appeal to me as much because I crave more historical immersiveness. (see above!)
HOI4 is quite a good game in concept -- it's just ruined by a horrible AI. It has good and interesting mods, though.
Stellaris is IMO their best single-player game.

EU4 is ok, but kind of boring by mid-game. I'll give Imperator a try when it has been patched about a dozen more times & it's on sale!
 

KuwabaraTheMan

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CK2 is the best for me. An amazing mix of role playing and strategy that I never get tired of.

Imperator is the weakest right now. There's just not enough flavor and the game feels kind of bland.
 

Kriegsspieler

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The Best:
Vic2, HoI2, CK2.

The worst:
HoI3, EU:Rome, Sengoku

The most disappointing a.k.a. the most potential poorly realized:
HoI4, Stellaris, Imperator
If we're not limiting ourselves to their "current" games, then yes, HOI2 was quite good. It made a giant advance over the original.
Many of the game's core concepts have been improved on since then, but none of the HOI's has played as well as HOI2 did in terms of overall balance and challenging SP play.
 

fr-rein

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I still love HoI2 way more than HoI4 myself. It had more appealing style too.
 

LSF

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I think I own all pds games, the worst one IMO is Crowns of the North! (maybe I forgot the correct name though)

Among the actual ones Id say the best one is EU4 and the worst one is CK2.

I like abstract strategy games and EU4 is the closer to it. I also like the focus on the macro.

I understand why people love CK2, I laughed a lot in the few hundred hours playing that game while I cannibalized my mother and entered a black cult. But for me it doesnt have so much replayability, those few hundred hours were enough. The problem is the characters. I want pure strategy, taking care of characters is like wasting time for me. I do like RPGs, but when I want to roleplay I play a tabletop RPG with friends, not a videogame. But as soon as CK3 is released Ill buy and try it.

I have 2.6K hours in EU4 and counting.

I love VIC2 too. Stellaris is really fun too, but right now unplayable in mid and late game. Very excited for the next patch to see if it will be really faster.
 

LSF

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Well it look like the strategic part is improved without hurting the RP aspect of the series.
I hope so. I understand people like CK2, but it hardly can be called as grand strategy.
 

AntiSocials

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CK2- 10 out of 10
Stellaris Pre MegaCorp - 8 out of 10
Victoria 2 -7 out of 10
HoI2 Arsenal of Democracy - 6.8 out of 10
EU4 - 6.5 out of 10
HoI4 - 6.2 out of 10
Imperator Rome at Release- 5 out of 10
Stellaris Currently - 4 out of 10
Imperator Rome Now 3 out of 10
you think Imperator has gotten WORSE?
at launch it was a 4/10, it's easily a 6/10 now that mana is gone and they've given pops and religion a rework.
 

GundamMerc

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you think Imperator has gotten WORSE?
at launch it was a 4/10, it's easily a 6/10 now that mana is gone and they've given pops and religion a rework.
Mana's bad, m'kay. Let's not look at the underlying issues, just blame mana.
 

GundamMerc

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AntiSocials mentioned more than mana in that very post you quoted.
Which would be an argument if I agreed that pops and religion have been improved. Especially religion...

Further, I disagree that removing "mana" has fixed anything, or that it was even removed at all...
 

AntiSocials

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Which would be an argument if I agreed that pops and religion have been improved. Especially religion...

Further, I disagree that removing "mana" has fixed anything, or that it was even removed at all...
At launch, pops were completely malleable to the players whims, at a click of a button they could be transported halfway across the map, have their religion and culture instantly shifted, and there was no organic interal migration. Now pops move about the map depending on ease of access, avaiable housing, food surplus etc, and the only pops the player can instantly move are property. Religious converstion is now no longer essential, by syncretising with another religion you gain access to the best of their gods while keeping the populace of that religion happy (this is exactly what the romans did). an actual sense of accomplishemnt comes from building a city and watching it grow over time, or by watching the your hinterland and thus economy grow more developed and densly populated than your rivals, because you've focused on removing pirate nests, keeping unrest low, and enemy armies away from your provinces. cultural converstion now happens gradually, and at a much, much slower rate, cultural synrectism, and a rework of how different cultures play and melt together is coming next patch.

Finally, it doesn't matter whether you disagree, because it HAS been removed. Political influence represents your government's political capital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_capital) it takes time to build support for the various actions a government can take, paradox's implimentation isn't perfect but it works well for what it needs to do and isn't completely a made-up form of currency. Military experience, the other currency, is slightly more flawed in my opinion, but i'm not bothered about that, because a patch for warfare as a whole is coming in the autumn.
 
Last edited:

GundamMerc

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If you don't believe those are still mana by another name, I feel sorry for you.
 

Nyrael

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If you don't believe those are still mana by another name, I feel sorry for you.
In that case Mana was never a problem because currencies like Gold, Prestige, Piety, Militancy, Consciousness, etc. are all technically Mana. If they were not a problem before, theny the are not now.

When people talk about Mana, we talk about Monarch Point system introduced by EU4 which Imperator inherited. The problem here is not in currencies (or Mana as you call it), but by the design intention - you collect an extremely abstract set of currencies that are used to make magical actions. Simulating realistic, organic changes in society is discouraged. Long-term planning is discouraged. Everything has to happen on a click of a button. Everything must be under the player's control. THESE are the problems, not currencies per se.
Abstract currencies (aka Mana) will always exist as you can never simulate everything (nor does anyone really want EVERYTHING to be simulated in detail). The point is not to remove all this like some religious fanatic purging heretics, but to make sure that Abstract currencies are used when needed, rather than enforced to be used everywhere. There's almost no strategy game in existence that does not depend on "Mana". The problem here is, and always has been, a certain game's design philosophy.

With that all said, I wonder if you even played Imperator after the mentioned patches because your posts makes zero sense. You can't use Political Influence, gold for that or any other currency for POP control. You need to build cities, import trade goods, build buildings, create jobs, intentionally not build up territories, force governors to follow certain province policies, etc. NONE of this can in any way be categorized as use of abstract currencies aka mana.
 

Donkey Kong

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The best, most polished, graphically intensive Paradox game is Diplomacy. Hands down. 100 %.
 

klopkr

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I just want to make some extremely subjective ranks:

Games that are most relaxing to play:
I:R > CK2 > Stellaris > HoI4 > Eu4

Games that make me ragequit because mechanics are wonk and cause unexpected results:
Eu4 > CK2 > I:R > Stellaris > HoI4

Funnest battle/wars:
HoI4 > I:R (god i love auto armies) > Eu4 > Ck2 > Stellaris

Best economies:
Stellaris >>>>>> Eu4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Imperator > Ck2/HoI4 (what economy?)

Best map painter:
Ck2 (it's so easy!) > Eu4 > Hoi4 (until you hit a body of water) >>>> Imperator (it's just not fun to do) > Stellaris (it'll take you a lifetime and kill you with micro) > Hoi4 (after you hit a body of water)

Best RP:
Ck2 > Stellaris >>>>> Imperator >>> Eu4 >>>>> HoI4 (you're gonna do it this way and like it)

Best quality of DLC:
Ck2/Stellaris >>>>>>>>>>>> Hoi4(fix on broken aspect of the game and add fun little railroad story) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EU4 (Role the dice if it'll make the game worse or better)

Best timesaver mechanics:
EU4 (they're not all good but they have the most) >>>> Imperator (All gold but not that many yet) >>>>> Hoi4 >>>> Ck2 (lol maybe you get a pittance from Eu4) >>>>> Stellaris (most of them are broken and there's endless micro somewhere ahead of you)

They're all great and addictive and fun in their own way but each has their own flaws and benefits from their unique gameplay styles.
 
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elektrizikekswerk

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HoI4 (what economy?)
Not exactly "economy" in the classic sense but still the most complex outside Vic2 with 6 different "non-mana" resources which are all more or less equally important. Maybe except chromium which is only needed for the really "heavy" stuff.
However, YMMV if you consider this part of the economy or part of... I don't know. Logistics? Which would be a part of warfare?
 

klopkr

Chief suggester at the suggestion factory
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Aug 12, 2013
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Not exactly "economy" in the classic sense but still the most complex outside Vic2 with 6 different "non-mana" resources which are all more or less equally important. Maybe except chromium which is only needed for the really "heavy" stuff.
However, YMMV if you consider this part of the economy or part of... I don't know. Logistics? Which would be a part of warfare?
I've literally never looked at that tab while playing HoI4 beyond finding someone to import what i'm missing. I know you need them for production but i find that I conquer what i need and things still get produced so \_o_O_/