What is Johan's play style?

[Cardus]

Frankly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Mackenzie King (PM of Canada) did hold a plebiscite on conscription for overseas service.

80% of English Canadians voted yes
85% of French Canadians voted no

Conscription very nearly tore the country apart in WWI; King had no desire to repeat this and thus there was no real conscription for overseas service (a few thousand conscripts were sent overseas but even this was deeply divisive).

I would suggest you to say the full story instead of what suits you best:
1) The Canadian government declared war without asking for the permission of Canadians.
2) In 1940 the government adopted conscription for home service in The National Resources Mobilization Act, 1940 (NRMA) without asking any permission to Canadians
3) In 1942 the government organized the plebiscite on conscription promising to NOT send conscripts overseas
4) Following the referendum the government then passed Bill 80, repealing the sections of the NRMA that did not allow for overseas conscription

 

[Cardus]

No I didn´t lost the point, you ignore simple facts. How often should i repeat it?

For germany it was not possible to reach the PRO CAPITA level of UK and the USA, after WWI. Why? GERMANY DIDN`T HAD THE MARKET TO SELL THEIR WARES. So it was simple impossible to do it.

Thats the only reason why germany didn´t catch up before 1943 in PRO CAPITA industrialisation.

And i wrote several times, germany had to import fuel for nearly all vehicles with a engine, before the war germany produced 800.000 metric tons of crude oil.

So please explaine me how could germany reduce the needed manpower in the agriculture without importing oil?

So lets talk about the UK:

Leadup to the Second World War
In the 1930s, before the outbreak of the Second World War, the British population was somewhere between 46 million and 52 million.

Britain imported 70% of its food; this required 20 million tons of shipping a year. 50% of meat was imported, 70% of cheese and sugar, 80% of fruits, 70% of cereals and fats, 91% of butter. Of this, 1/6th of meat imports, 1/4 of butter imports and 1/2 of cheese imports came from New Zealand alone, a long ways away by shipping lanes.

Knowing this would lead the Axis powers into hoping to starve the British population into submission, by cutting off those food supply lines.

The British government began planning for wartime rationing in 1936. Should war occur again, this time they hoped to be better prepared based on their experiences the last time around. A Food (Defence Plans) Department was set up as part of the Board of Trade to do the project planning. Ration booklets were printed up in 1938, ready to go.

http://www.cooksinfo.com/british-wartime-food

Germany imported 17 % percent and produced 83 % of her needed food.

UK imported 70% percent and produced 30 % of her needed food.

YOU SEE THE DISCREPANCY HERE?

So you are saying that Germany had mechanized and modern agriculture but could not sell the crops even to the Germans (can you please say from where did you take the 17% figure?)

Here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi–Soviet_economic_relations_(1934–41)#Soviet_provision_of_raw_materials_and_other_help

While the Soviet Union provided 100% of German imports of rye, barley and oats, this was 20% of the amount of the total German harvest

and here https://books.google.it/books?id=r2...A#v=onepage&q=german food import 1936&f=false see that foodstuff import from Soviet Union was only 10% of total import. This should tell you that Germany was largely dependent on imports (i.e. the opposite of what you claim).

 

[ironchanchellor]

I would suggest you to say the full story instead of what suits you best:
1) The Canadian government declared war without asking for the permission of Canadians.
2) In 1940 the government adopted conscription for home service in The National Resources Mobilization Act, 1940 (NRMA) without asking any permission to Canadians
3) In 1942 the government organized the plebiscite on conscription promising to NOT send conscripts overseas
4) Following the referendum the government then passed Bill 80, repealing the sections of the NRMA that did not allow for overseas conscription

We teach in Quebec's schools that the canadian prime minister promised to not impose conscription if the Quebecois supported the liberal candiate, Adélard Godbout. Afterward, the prime minister organized the plebiscite for the whole Canadian population to be released of his words, breaking his promise to the Quebecois as the population across Canada supported Britain. This resulted in riots in Montreal and general resistance towards conscription in the french canadian populations, which represented a little bit under 1/3 of the canadian population. The Quebecois to this day learn of this as a betrayal, a prime minister that imposed conscription and this is even without any canadian conscripts going overseas. imagine what this 1/3 of Canada would do if they had to fight overseas.

also I think that in the final days of the war there was a french Canadian brigade or battalion that mutinied when they were ordered overseas, but these are thing I read in textbook a few years ago and i cannot be sure that it was during WW2.

 

[ramius3443]

We teach in Quebec's schools that the canadian prime minister promised to not impose conscription if the Quebecois supported the liberal candiate, Adélard Godbout. Afterward, the prime minister organized the plebiscite for the whole Canadian population to be released of his words, breaking his promise to the Quebecois as the population across Canada supported Britain. This resulted in riots in Montreal and general resistance towards conscription in the french canadian populations, which represented a little bit under 1/3 of the canadian population. The Quebecois to this day learn of this as a betrayal, a prime minister that imposed conscription and this is even without any canadian conscripts going overseas. imagine what this 1/3 of Canada would do if they had to fight overseas.

also I think that in the final days of the war there was a french Canadian brigade or battalion that mutinied when they were ordered overseas, but these are thing I read in textbook a few years ago and i cannot be sure that it was during WW2.

Out of curiosity, why would the Queboquois have been opposed to being conscripted in the first place? I know they have a certain seperateness towards the rest of Canada and must not have been thrilled to fight alongside the English, but France was in the war too...

 

[Duke of Awesome]

Out of curiosity, why would the Queboquois have been opposed to being conscripted in the first place? I know they have a certain seperateness towards the rest of Canada and must not have been thrilled to fight alongside the English, but France was in the war too...

Would you want to be forced to fight and die for a country you didn't even want to be a part of? Hell, being forced to fight and die for a country you support is still incredibly controversial.

 

[Cardus]

We teach in Quebec's schools that the canadian prime minister promised to not impose conscription if the Quebecois supported the liberal candiate, Adélard Godbout. Afterward, the prime minister organized the plebiscite for the whole Canadian population to be released of his words, breaking his promise to the Quebecois as the population across Canada supported Britain. This resulted in riots in Montreal and general resistance towards conscription in the french canadian populations, which represented a little bit under 1/3 of the canadian population. The Quebecois to this day learn of this as a betrayal, a prime minister that imposed conscription and this is even without any canadian conscripts going overseas. imagine what this 1/3 of Canada would do if they had to fight overseas.

also I think that in the final days of the war there was a french Canadian brigade or battalion that mutinied when they were ordered overseas, but these are thing I read in textbook a few years ago and i cannot be sure that it was during WW2.

Governments do what they please provided that the population will not revolt. To keep the population under control there are several instruments such as propaganda, media and suppression. Apart from King there are many other examples: Roosevelt joined the war well before 1942 and provoked Germans and Japanese with all means. The UK attacked Iraq and Libya recently, Turkey is at war in Syria and Iraq, etc.

 

[ironchanchellor]

Governments do what they please provided that the population will not revolt. To keep the population under control there are several instruments such as propaganda, media and suppression. Apart from King there are many other examples: Roosevelt joined the war well before 1942 and provoked Germans and Japanese with all means. The UK attacked Iraq and Libya recently, Turkey is at war in Syria and Iraq, etc.

As HOI4 simulate a short time period, there are long term consequences that do not come into play. So Canada ingame might be capable to force more conscripts overseas. But independence of Quebec might have being a even stronger movement than it was historically, and that is in no way beneficial for the federal government. as for propaganda and media, the population of Quebec was a highly rural one for an industrialized society, and few in those area had access to radio. the most influential power among the people is the Catholique clergy and they wanted nothing to do with the war. Not that they opposed it directly, as they tried to avoid confrontation with the government, but they discouraged anyone from leaving the farmlands. The only effective way would have being repression, but it isn't the most ideal solution, and would have lead to more feeling of betrayal among Quebecois.

 

[ironchanchellor]

Out of curiosity, why would the Queboquois have been opposed to being conscripted in the first place? I know they have a certain seperateness towards the rest of Canada and must not have been thrilled to fight alongside the English, but France was in the war too...

the links between Quebec and France were very weak, and the French Canadians didn't identifies themselves as French. And Quebec always felt that they were not represented or ignored by the federal gov. As one of the founding province, Quebec felt isolated from all others and as such, adopted a strict isolation and refuse to go dying for anyone, far less for the people they see as the reason for their isolation.