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Wimpola

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In WWW I couldn't quite figure out Johan's play style. Daniels was obvious because he said it in like all episodes (mass swabs of infantry to overrun the enemy) but I couldn't quite find out Johan's other than he snuck up invasions but nearly anyone wouldn't say they invaded the enemy. This would be great is Johan himself said what he was doing to accomplish his goals. Because Johan wasn't fighting on large front like Daniel it was hard for me to tell what he was doing. Tell me if Johan did tell what he was doing and show me the time in the WWW that he said it.
 
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Number 7

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i think what johan wanted to achieve was an elite army (almost his entire army was motorised if i'm not incorrect), as well as picking his battles at key locations (holding the suez the entire game).

then he wanted to make fast invasions using this elite motorised army, but due to lack of communication with the US player (you can only do so much with text + no pausing) caused some bad failures, like the spanish disaster. He did manage to hold italy even after many of the troops had left for elsewhere however.

he also had a good focus on his airforce
 
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Wimpola

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i think what johan wanted to achieve was an elite army (almost his entire army was motorised if i'm not incorrect), as well as picking his battles at key locations (holding the suez the entire game).

then he wanted to make fast invasions using this elite motorised army, but due to lack of communication with the US player (you can only do so much with text + no pausing) caused some bad failures, like the spanish disaster. He did manage to hold italy even after many of the troops had left for elsewhere however.

he also had a good focus on his airforce
Ok thanks. Now when I rematch the WWW I will understand it a bit more.
 

GermanPower

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I bet it's not super fun to have every aspect of your strategy&tactics discussed. I just suddenly realized that, lol...after even posting myself.
 
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steve213

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to be bad at life in general and HOI4 in particular.
 
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The Lord Drake

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You guys are being awfully critical. Here's an idea, why don't you play against the single most experienced HoI IV player in the world? See who wins then.
Oh, and you have to do it while trying to keep track of a stream, and an ally you can't effectively communicate with.

Or here is an even more radical idea, answer the OPs question rather than just bash Johan.

Answer to OP:
From my guess, he was looking to build a mobile and flexible force early, then fill it out with cheap, spongy infantry to hold positions taken by his motorized inf. This was supported by heavy bombing of German industry for most of the game, and a strong air force in general. On top of this he had total naval supremacy allowing him complete flexibility to attack where ever, when ever.
 
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Augustus93

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You guys are being awfully critical. Here's an idea, why don't you play against the single most experienced HoI IV player in the world? See who wins then.
Oh, and you have to do it while trying to keep track of a stream, and an ally you can't effectively communicate with.

Or here is an even more radical idea, answer the OPs question rather than just bash Johan.

Answer to OP:
From my guess, he was looking to build a mobile and flexible force early, then fill it out with cheap, spongy infantry to hold positions taken by his motorized inf. This was supported by heavy bombing of German industry for most of the game, and a strong air force in general. On top of this he had total naval supremacy allowing him complete flexibility to attack where ever, when ever.
If you could set it up then I would gladly play against the best HoI IV player in the world. (Also, he does not exactly have all that much competition at this point). Johan was silent for most of the streams, at least 2/3 of the stream was Daniel talking and answering questions. An ally that basically did communicate with Johan and provided massive support. If it would have been only AI controlled then Johan would have lost pretty quickly. Also the whole Japan gets invaded would not have happened either. Basically it was unfair that the US and Japan watched the stream and really only the US player did communicate with Johan(as Daniel did not exactly have the time to do so with Japan) and gave away all of Daniels plans. The game had furthermore bugs, the naval strait blocking should have prevented a lot of abuse of the system that Johan and the US player did. He shipped motorized units to the desert, it was bound for disaster. If Germany would have gone in a little bit sooner(while Italy was still present in North Africa) then Johan would have been in a lot of trouble. Johans play style was the best that he could do really, he quickly invaded the different axis members, hoping to overrun them(and he was quite successful at it) and then they surrender and in the process loses all of their troops.
 
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Johan is probably the best suited for the "British style of play", build a strong navy and airforce and sit on the defensive and send your allies to die for you.
Unfortunately the AI and the USA player were not able to bleed Daniel and this resulted in a total collapse.
 
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Johan is probably the best suited for the "British style of play", build a strong navy and airforce and sit on the defensive and send your allies to die for you.

Owch. That's a little...harsh? Unlike countries like the USSR or the US, or even Germany, Britain has never had a very big army - and in WWII didn't have much in the way of a vast populous to build one. Yes, it needed allies to help fight - almost always has - but it never just sat back and did nothing to help them.

Britain tried to intervene in Norway, and was there in France with most of it's available strength in 1940. After Dunkirk the UK needed to reorganise and rebuild all the lost Materiel - but still fought in North Africa with several Corps (with it's Commonwealth allies) vs the Italians and Germans, and was winning there, long before the US turned up, thank you. It fought alongside it's allies in Italy, and again in Northern Europe.

Direct fighting aside the UK took the lead in intelligence, in covert operations, supporting the Resistance and launching commando raids. It send untold materiel to the Soviets. And of course there were the bombing raids.

Britain NEVER stopped fighting. It was involved in combat almost continuously on one front or another, for the entire war. It was NEVER just "sitting on the defensive". It did not have the luxury of large armies, or vast resources, but it did what it could, where it could, when it could. Britain can be criticised for many things - it's war record certainly isn't perfect - but "sitting on the defensive and sending allies to die for them" is NOT one that is justified. Wherever those Allies fought, the UK forces were usually there too in some capacity, and if those allies died, so too did Brits, alongside them .
 
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Augustus93

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Owch. That's a little...harsh? Unlike countries like the USSR or the US, or even Germany, Britain has never had a very big army - and in WWII didn't have much in the way of a vast populous to build one. Yes, it needed allies to help fight - almost always has - but it never just sat back and did nothing to help them.

Britain tried to intervene in Norway, and was there in France with most of it's available strength in 1940. After Dunkirk the UK needed to reorganise and rebuild all the lost Materiel - but still fought in North Africa with several Corps (with it's Commonwealth allies) vs the Italians and Germans, and was winning there, long before the US turned up, thank you. It fought alongside it's allies in Italy, and again in Northern Europe.

Direct fighting aside the UK took the lead in intelligence, in covert operations, supporting the Resistance and launching commando raids. It send untold materiel to the Soviets. And of course there were the bombing raids.

Britain was NEVER "not fighting". It did not have the luxury of large armies, or vast resources, but it did what it could, where it could, when it could. Britain can be criticised for many things - it's war record certainly isn't perfect - but "sitting on the defensive and sending allies to die for them" is NOT one that is justified. Wherever those Allies fought, the UK forces were usually there too in some capacity, and if those allies died, so too did Brits, alongside them .
Britain also had a large empire across the whole globe so their military was stretched pretty thin to begin with.
 
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GermanPower

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British style of play: Lots of multitasking.
German Style : Grand Strategy with minor multitasking
Soviet: Tank. Grand. Tank. Strategy.
American Style: Build all the Industry
Japan Style: Sink many boats. In many places in Asia land.
 
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shri

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Owch. That's a little...harsh? Unlike countries like the USSR or the US, or even Germany, Britain has never had a very big army - and in WWII didn't have much in the way of a vast populous to build one. Yes, it needed allies to help fight - almost always has - but it never just sat back and did nothing to help them.

Britain tried to intervene in Norway, and was there in France with most of it's available strength in 1940. After Dunkirk the UK needed to reorganise and rebuild all the lost Materiel - but still fought in North Africa with several Corps (with it's Commonwealth allies) vs the Italians and Germans, and was winning there, long before the US turned up, thank you. It fought alongside it's allies in Italy, and again in Northern Europe.

Direct fighting aside the UK took the lead in intelligence, in covert operations, supporting the Resistance and launching commando raids. It send untold materiel to the Soviets. And of course there were the bombing raids.

Britain NEVER stopped fighting. It was involved in combat almost continuously on one front or another, for the entire war. It was NEVER just "sitting on the defensive". It did not have the luxury of large armies, or vast resources, but it did what it could, where it could, when it could. Britain can be criticised for many things - it's war record certainly isn't perfect - but "sitting on the defensive and sending allies to die for them" is NOT one that is justified. Wherever those Allies fought, the UK forces were usually there too in some capacity, and if those allies died, so too did Brits, alongside them .

It has NOTHING to do with population and EVERYTHING to do with the last 500 years of History. Since the 1500's Hapsburg bid for domination in Europe to claim the throne of Charlemagne till the end of the USSR in 1989-90, the UK has followed this strategy and don't get me wrong- i think they were quite successful in doing it.
Throughout the various wars launched by the French via Louis the XIV to Napoleon and then the two World Wars, this policy was followed rigorously and successfully.
In the Napoleonic wars, the French Foreign Minister Talleyrand is known to have said- "The English will fight till the last bit of Prussian, Austrian and Russian blood". and similar quotes were made during the 7 year war by the Austrian and French Foreign ministers.

Population of UK in 1940- 55 million, Germany- 80 million, shows UK has 70% of German population, if you include the "White Dominions" you have another 20+ million, in addition you had volunteers from all over Europe- Poles, French, Norway, Czech etc, the numbers were available if needed (the Poles and Free French did contribute enough even after being overrun, the rest did not contribute much but Czech pilots as well as Polish pilots were the highest scorers in the Battle of Britain). It was a conscious policy to let the Russians bleed for eventual allied victory. If the will was present to fight, the UK did have the numbers to field, it chose not to and then couched those lack of numbers in "mumbo-jumbo" so much so that -Eisenhower got irritated with Churchill and Alanbrooke. Eisenhower is also known to have quipped- "If a friend cheats you once, shame on him; if he cheats you twice, shame on you" in reference to that behavior. There was a reason why the UK deliberately delayed D-Day and insisted on Italy, North Africa, Balkans etc etc and why it was ok with Stalin taking over Eastern Europe as War Reparations, the "Percentage Deals" made in secret by Churchill and Stalin were also leaked to the Americans by Stalin and they swung American opinion even more towards Stalin (all this is pre 1945 and not post start of Cold War).

As to the untold material- it got 10 times as much material from the US for every scrap of material sent to the USSR. The Russians certainly do not need to acknowledge anything, they have paid the price a 1000 times over in body bags.
 
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Silent mainly ;)

I do not think that the UK can invade mainland Europe without the US and Canadian help.

What I was disappointed with in the WWW was that there is still no co-operation between the allies. I did notice that South Africa gave the UK expeditionary forces in the last edition, i.e 1944. What is disappointing is that Canada did not as far as I could see. We missed parts of what the UK were up too.
 
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@shri I don't want to derail this thread as others have been, BUT:

The statements of world leaders who were under duress or playing politics with bias and agendas, - the statements of the enemy no less - does not necessarily reflect the reality of events. The likes of Foreign Minister Taleyrand couldn't have had it more wrong. The British have always relied on allies - but they have also always assisted them where ever possible and had their own navies and/armies operating aggressively.

The following figures are based on accounts I have read and am attempting to recall. Other sources might give slightly different figures - and I am not perfect - I may not be able to remember it all properly. So apologies in advance for any mistakes.

Now, as I understand it...

White Dominions were of limited use since they were often semi-independent, with control of their own forces needed to defend their own dominions. What was loaned was useful, sometimes decisive, and welcome, but usually not very sizeable in the scale of world war two. A similar problem lay with the rest of the empire, with British forces being spread thin to garrison and (try to ) protect it. Perhaps most importantly of all, just twenty years before, WWI had wiped out almost an entire generation, and so large had the call up been that war production in Britain had been left without enough workforce, so that war production had been compromised. Britain was intent on this slaughter and shortfall not happening again. So it took measures to prevent it.

The Military Training Act of April 1939 required that all British men aged 20 and 21 - no other ages - who were fit and able, were required to take military training. Even so, when war broke out the process had barely begun and the British Army could still only muster about 900,000 men

Recognising the need for more, Parliament brought in the National Service Act. This made all able men between the ages of 18 and 41 liable for conscription; (still no one younger than 18 note), with a priority on single men being called up before married men. To prevent a repeat of WWI the call up would be done incrementally. Furthermore, 5 million men were kept in "Reserved Occupations", necessary to keep the war effort going and the country itself running effectively. To fill the gaps left by those going to armed forces, women worked in factories, or on the farms (the Land Army) and filled many military non-combat support roles in the Auxiliary Territorial Service.

The age group included in the call ups gradually became more inclusive until by 1942 all healthy and fit males between 18 and 51 years old and all healthy and fit single and childless females 20 to 30 years old were liable to be called up. Unfortunately it is very difficult to ascertain how many eligible combatants this actually was - since many of the relevant records from the national census were lost or/and destroyed. However, of an estimated population of around 47 - 48 million (not 50 million), the children numbered about 14 million. Take out the other exemptions from service - women who were married, or had children, or who were older than 30; males older than 51; those deemed unfit for service; the blind and mentally ill; the Clergy, those millions in "reserved occupations" - it quickly becomes apparent that well over half of the population would not have been eligible for service in the armed forces - although many did their part on the Home Front. Several million kept the wheels of war turning, volunteering to be ARPs, Special Constables, Fire-fighters or Home Guard. Just a little less than half a million women joined the military and 6.5 million more had filled the jobs left empty by men, doing the same jobs men had (this of course suggests that at least 6.5 million men did mobilise, but the figure could be misleading, as war time production was far more intensive than at peacetime).

I have been trying to find the actual number of males aged between 18 and 51 and single women aged between 20 and 30 eligible for service - but such a figure appears to be lost. I have figures for the late 19th Century and pre WW1 - but obviously these are of little use. But even then, before WWI had taken so many, the number of men aged 18- 51 had only been roughly around 10 million. By 1939, after as many as 800,000 to a million people had died in WWI, and a further 250,000 had been lost to the influenza pandemic of 1919, the eligible manpower could not have been greater than 9 million at the very most. All I know is that by the end of the war 3.5 million had served in the British army (peaking at a maximum strength of 2.5 million), while about 900,000 served in the Royal Navy and 1 million in the RAF (with a further 200,000 from the Dominions and other allies). Tens of thousands had served in intelligence or covert operations. About 50,000 in the Merchant Navy. 37,000 more were sent to mines instead of the Front. I estimate about 6 million served (?). This seemed to push Britain to it's limit.

Since Britain was all about giving it's all ( bankrupting itself to keep the war going is not something you do if you are "holding back") and since in 1945 the army no longer had enough manpower and had to merge units to keep divisions at effective fighting strength, I would suggest that Britain did not have much more eligible man(woman) power (that it could afford) to use. The Army would not have left it's divisions short by choice, which rather implies that there wasn't much left in the eligible manpower reserves by 1945 - or/and that it did not have the funds to raise more. Either way, it rather seems that Britain had given it's all in the conditions it was operating under.

Regarding the Soviet Union: taking into account that Britain was giving it's all, and that Churchill knew full well that his country did not have the strength to take on Stalin, those "secret percentage deals" can be seen as nothing more than the realistic acknowledgement of the strategic situation, with Churchill, lacking any military clout and fast losing political influence too, still trying to save eastern Europe from complete Soviet take over. Churchill was always the first to fear and suspect the Soviets and he did not make that accord lightly - but since Stalin was not about to just leave -that had already been made clear - and since Churchill could not force him to militarily, a political compromise - and the hope that Stalin would abide by it - was all he could do.

And how is it "secret" if Churchill himself openly wrote about it in his own works?!

Regarding giving supplies and helping the Soviet Union: The UK got more aid - but then the UK was a lot easier and safer to reach!("Safe", being a relative term of course - the Atlantic was no pleasure cruise). However, despite the high peril 1400 vessels were still used in Arctic Convoys to try to get through to the USSR to give them aid from the US and Britain -supplies, arms, armour, aircraft - much of which Britain itself needed rather badly itself. These convoys tied up German forces that could otherwise have been used against the USSR and that instead sunk British vessels. Of the British ships involved, 16 Royal navy ships and 85 Merchant vessels were lost. The RAF lost lives too: Over 8,000 aircraft were lost in action. Bomber Command suffered over 55,000 killed - from a total of about 125,000. That's roughly around a 40% mortality rate. They died bombing the factories that were making the parts that made the arms and the planes and the tanks - disrupting, delaying, damaging and even destroying the production of German materiel, much of which would have been sent to the eastern front.

Many tens of thousands of British died trying to help the USSR, even if they didn't actually die side by side on the eastern front. That large chip on your shoulder? Take it off.
 
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