What is Japan's attitude to World War 2 nowadays?

[Sanny]

I know it's a complex question but it's also an interesting subject matter especially now with strong public support for Japan to remilitarise itself against North Korea.

I know they've made some nice tourist'y areas out of where the bombs fell on Nagasaki and Hiroshima but I know nothing about what the Japanese think about the war, if it were a grave mistake or if it was just one of those typical periods of bloody Japanese history it had to go through in order to become the great technological giant it is now today? Of which is a stark difference to what Japan used to be like in the 1920s/30s.

 

[DarthJF]

Majority of Japanese people are in the grave mistake category. Even PM Abe, who is often claimed to be historical revisionist, sticked to the grave mistake narrative in his 70th anniversary since the war speech.

With the Manchurian Incident, followed by the withdrawal from the League of Nations, Japan gradually transformed itself into a challenger to the new international order that the international community sought to establish after tremendous sacrifices. Japan took the wrong course and advanced along the road to war.

There remains a small and vocal minority who believe Japan was "tricked" into the war and she fought a noble fight to liberate Asia, but they are basically Japanese equivalent of neo-nazis.

Also, despite the North Korean threat, there is no strong public support for remilitarisation. When the government passed new security laws to expand the role of SDF in international operations, 57% tought they were necessary and 43% were against the new laws.

 

[Pyoro]

Their attitude towards the various war crimes they committed can still be quite shocking though, and "revisionist" literature or games or whatever are much more accepted there than any equivalent would be in Germany. I.e. games with some pseudo-WWII setting and the Japanese being the good guys. Now you can say it's just fiction and it's perfectly alright to do that, perfectly legitimate opinion - I'm not saying there's any sinister intention there, but, again, go to a German Deutsche Bahn museum and you'll find a portion which goes on about the complicity of the Reichsbahn in German war crimes. Walk through central Munich and you'll find some WWII memorial thing at almost every corner. In my experience that sort of thing just doesn't happen in Japan.

 

[Sanny]

Also, despite the North Korean threat, there is no strong public support for remilitarisation. When the government passed new security laws to expand the role of SDF in international operations, 57% tought they were necessary and 43% were against the new laws.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Abe re-elected on the basis he would remilitarise Japan?

 

[DarthJF]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Abe re-elected on the basis he would remilitarise Japan?

The main election issue is always about the economy. While in power Abe has pursued a program called Abenomics that has aimed to revitalise Japanese economy through strong fiscal stimulus and keeping the value of yen low to boost exports.

Abe himself claimed that a strong election result gives LDP a mandate to pursue their other program of tougher security policy in response to the North Korean threat, but that's not something the public opinion has strongly gotten behind of. His election success has also been helped by the fact that opposition politics for the past few years have been a total mess. This time the main opposition party for example literally split in two right before the elections.

 

[Sanny]

The main election issue is always about the economy. While in power Abe has pursued a program called Abenomics that has aimed to revitalise Japanese economy through strong fiscal stimulus and keeping the value of yen low to boost exports.

Abe himself claimed that a strong election result gives LDP a mandate to pursue their other program of tougher security policy in response to the North Korean threat, but that's not something the public opinion has strongly gotten behind of. His election success has also been helped by the fact that opposition politics for the past few years have been a total mess. This time the main opposition party for example literally split in two right before the elections.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/bj7z3v/will-north-korea-drive-japan-to-remilitarise

 

[DarthJF]

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/bj7z3v/will-north-korea-drive-japan-to-remilitarise

The article is pretty much saying what I did in my post.

The change that the LDP wants to make is to the pacifist clause of constitution, and it's fair to say that a majority of Japanese voters do not see the need to [do that]. Abe's going to be facing an uphill battle.

I guess I'm surprised to hear all this. Fear is powerful motivator in America, and with people getting text alerts about missile launches, I would think everyone in Japan would be desperate to beef up their military without caveat.
Therein lies the puzzle that motivates my entire work. I completely share your surprise, because it just doesn't make any sense. North Korea launched a missile over Japan recently and the government had to issue these alerts that said "Japanese people make sure you duck and cover because there's a missile coming your way. It's not being aimed at Japan, but it's going over Japan and something could fall onto you." And so even though that is happening, Japanese people are resistant to revising the constitution. It's a puzzle, definitely.

Also, the number of votes LDP has gotten in general elections:
2017 - 18,555,717
2014 - 17,658,916
2012 - 16,624,457 (when LDP got back in power)
2009 - 18,810,217 (when LDP lost power for DPJ)

LDP pretty much always gets around 16 to 18 million votes from their supporters. In 2009, when they got beaten by DPJ, they won more votes than they have done in any elections under Abe. So the support for LDP hasn't changed. The same folks vote for them in every elections. What keeps changing is the support for the other parties and how united or divided the opposition is.

 

[keynes2.0]

In 2017, 56 million Japanese voted. In 2009, 70 million Japanese voted. So even though the number of votes is the same it's a big swing in support.

 

[DarthJF]

In 2017, 56 million Japanese voted. In 2009, 70 million Japanese voted. So even though the number of votes is the same it's a big swing in support.

It's a big swing in share. The people who voted DPJ into power have stayed stayed at home in following elections. It's wrong to say that support for LDP has increased, when in reality support for the other parties has dropped.

 

[keynes2.0]

It's a big swing in share. The people who voted DPJ into power have stayed stayed at home in following elections. It's wrong to say that support for LDP has increased, when in reality support for the other parties has dropped.

I disagree. Absolute number of votes is not a holistic measure of support. If the absolute stays the same but the percentage rises, I would say that support has risen. Likewise if the percentage stayed the same and the absolute rose, I would say that support rose.

 

[DarthJF]

I disagree. Absolute number of votes is not a holistic measure of support. If the absolute stays the same but the percentage rises, I would say that support has risen. Likewise if the percentage stayed the same and the absolute rose, I would say that support rose.

I tend to think about it in terms of how large share of total voting population is voting for a given party. Given that Japan has around 100 million voters the percentage of Japanese people who vote for the LDP hasn't changed dramatically.

Then there are opinion polls to consider. Before the 2017 election LDP had 24% approval rating in polling while Abe personally had higher disapproval than approval rating. Given that LDP managed to win 33% of the vote and sweep most of the seats, it's safe to assume that their electoral success is higher than their actual support level.

 

[keynes2.0]

it's safe to assume that their electoral success is higher than their actual support level.

This statement seems to indicate agreement with what I said about absolute number of votes not being a direct reflection of public support.

 

[DarthJF]

This statement seems to indicate agreement with what I said about absolute number of votes not being a direct reflection of public support.

Yes, I agree with you on that.

 

[LordTempest]

Darth is quite right. Turnout is a big factor in Japanese elections because the voting population is arguably the most apathetic in the democratic world. Komeito have a small constituency from which they can pool votes from -- roughly 3-5% of Japanese are adherents of Soka Gakkai -- but over the past two decades they have routinely won between 10-15% of the vote because their supporters are much more likely to turn up than those of other parties.

 

[noobermenschen]

I know it's a complex question but it's also an interesting subject matter especially now with strong public support for Japan to remilitarise itself against North Korea.

I know they've made some nice tourist'y areas out of where the bombs fell on Nagasaki and Hiroshima but I know nothing about what the Japanese think about the war, if it were a grave mistake or if it was just one of those typical periods of bloody Japanese history it had to go through in order to become the great technological giant it is now today? Of which is a stark difference to what Japan used to be like in the 1920s/30s.

I have noticed over the years it's been hard for this forum to keep Japanese members, or at least keep them active, as they will often joke about or downplay the Second Sino-Japanese War and almost immediately get flamed off the forum when the Chinese posters lose their minds.

 

[Sanny]

I have noticed over the years it's been hard for this forum to keep Japanese members, or at least keep them active, as they will often joke about or downplay the Second Sino-Japanese War and almost immediately get flamed off the forum when the Chinese posters lose their minds.

Yeah, that war in particular is quite a touchy subject, mostly due to the fact Japan has never been brought up on war crimes committed during that war despite overwhelming evidence that crimes against humanity were carried out. But as I said it's a touchy subject and only brews trouble between Chinese and Japanese community members. But I do hope the Japanese nowadays feel a sense of regret and apology to their Chinese and Korean neighbours for their actions during the war.

 

[Skyaway]

I live in Taiwan. I have asked several ex-Japanese about 1940s.
Indeed, most elders over 80 in Taiwan had been Japanese until WW2 end.
My grandpa and their friends got Japanese education and speak Japanese really well.

Most significant event in their memory is ...
Republic of China (ROC) take over Taiwan after WW2.
WW2 made Taiwanese no more belonged to Japan, but de-jure to ROC.

How did ROC rule?
In March, 1946《Washington Daily News》headline：
「Chinese exploit Formosa worse than Japs did」

In 1947, anti-corruption uprising lead to February 28 Massacre .
The incident is one of the most important events in Taiwan's modern history.
And it was a critical impetus for the Taiwan independence movement.

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

I live in Taiwan. I have asked several ex-Japanese about 1940s.
Indeed, most elders over 80 in Taiwan had been Japanese until WW2 end.
My grandpa and their friends got Japanese education and speak Japanese really well.

Most significant event in their memory is ...
Republic of China (ROC) take over Taiwan after WW2.
WW2 made Taiwanese no more belonged to Japan, but de-jure to ROC.

How did ROC rule?
In March, 1946《Washington Daily News》headline：
「Chinese exploit Formosa worse than Japs did」

In 1947, anti-corruption uprising lead to February 28 Massacre .
The incident is one of the most important events in Taiwan's modern history.
And it was a critical impetus for the Taiwan independence movement.

How do you become "ex-Japanese"? Taiwan was a part of the Japanese Empire, but Taiwanese people weren't considered Japanese, no more than Koreans, and arguably less so than even Okinawans, who Japanese treated like subhumans at the time.

 

[Flavius Belisarius]

One of my school teachers was from Japan and she said part of the issue is their history education. It is often avoided in classes but a bigger problem is that they often learn a start to finish history of Japan.

They start at some very early point in Japan's history and by the time they reach the 20th century they are leaving school.

 

[mccarty.geoff]

The Japanese and Asians in general have a much less indoctrinated more realistic outlook on history I'd say. Despite their media having been controlled by the USA for the last 70 years I bet the majority of Japan knows that what their ancestors did was necessary for the expansion and continuation of their empire. It would be like the French accusing Napolean of being a traitor if Japanese dishonored the efforts made in the Sino-Japanese and second world war. You grow up in Asia learning about how your ethnic group fought, won, and lost war after war and probably (I assume here) aren't taught too think that your historical relatives were either saints or demons like children in the Anglo-sphere and Europe are. We're more infused with Christian identity which replaces history as a literal subject with dogma.