What is going on?

[rubinedan]

Hello!

I am playing as Russia, having fun with the third Rome DLC. But my game always gets destroyed.

The Ottomans always expand towards the great horde, I declare on the GH and they declare right after I do. Then we kinda partition GH and everything is cool. But every time, EVERY TIME, the Ottomans come back for the rest of the GH and fight me between 1550-1590.

I always lose. at first I thought I am just unlucky, but after 3 times it happened I am starting to think that something is wrong. I have never seen in YT, at all versions Ottomans doing such things.

Can someone Help me? because every time they do it a nation like Uzbek or Nogai comes back for me and I am just screwed and give up.

What is wrong? I am getting angry, 3 games became garbage because of this thing

 

[The Tsar]

you can try getting strong alliances. i allied austria(and some other nations but i dont remember) as russia so the ottomans were scared of attacking me. if u can, ally their rivals.

 

[rubinedan]

you can try getting strong alliances. i allied austria(and some other nations but i dont remember) as russia so the ottomans were scared of attacking me. if u can, ally their rivals.

Haha I was allied with Poland and Austria, and they lost and surrendered. And then the whole Ottoman Army was on me.

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

Have you tried NOT invading the Great Horde?
Novgorod and Perm may be better directions.

 

[The Tsar]

maybe u used up most of your manpower on great horde and ottomans saw u as a weakness maybe? did u get novgorod? and how strong actualy were poland and austria in your game? you should always check if you and your allies armies are bigger then otto armies.

 

[rubinedan]

maybe u used up most of your manpower on great horde and ottomans saw u as a weakness maybe? did u get novgorod? and how strong actualy were poland and austria in your game? you should always check if you and your allies armies are bigger then otto armies.

This was not the case mate, I had full manpower. Poland was not with Lithuania for some reason, so by the time the Ottomans decided to screw me I almost got to the Lithuanian-Polish border, I had parts of Kazan, GH, and almost got to Novosibirsk

 

[rubinedan]

Have you tried NOT invading the Great Horde?
Novgorod and Perm may be better directions.

It is an option, but this is weird. I HAVE NEVER SEEN the Ottomans do such thing, when I watched on yt or played another country

 

[Big Bad France]

That is a difficult time period to fight the Ottomans, but they are very beatable in this patch because it's harder for them to spam mercs when they run out of manpower. Take defensive ideas and keep your armies behind your forts. Let the Ottomans come to you. Let them siege the forts until the percentage ticks positive, and then engage. You are probably going to have to outnumber them in your battles to win, and you will need to reinforce a full stack-width army with another army a few days in. Eventually, the attrition from sitting on your forts through the winters will whittle their manpower down to zero, and then you can go on the offensive and easily win the war. Expect others to dogpile on.

 

[klingonadmiral]

Honestly, the easiest option probably is to restart until the Ottomans do not get Crimea.

 

[rubinedan]

Honestly, the easiest option probably is to restart until the Ottomans do not get Crimea.

I know, but I restarted 3 times and it happened 3 times

 

[Blust]

Can you show us the Ottomans army comp / military tech / discipline / morale / tactics and yours ? The answer might be very simple

 

[rubinedan]

Can you show us the Ottomans army comp / military tech / discipline / morale / tactics and yours ? The answer might be very simple

They are the ottomans and I am Russia on 1570 with shitty allies while they have at least one Muslim ally around me. How can I win that?

 

[Dothor]

Try to get new allies. I think Ottoman Empire is defender of the faith in your game. When you declare war against muslims, you have to fight against Ottomans.

 

[Blust]

They are the ottomans and I am Russia on 1570 with shitty allies while they have at least one Muslim ally around me. How can I win that?

Yes ok but that's not what I asked.

 

[otaats]

It is an option, but this is weird. I HAVE NEVER SEEN the Ottomans do such thing, when I watched on yt or played another country

Odd, because this happened to me every time i played a Russian tag, and i played them a ton.

The first war is always hard, since its at the Ottoman peak (16th cent), so you really need to match them with some great manouvering and picking your fights. Take it as a war of attrition of sorts.. Just make sure that you have respectable amount of troops, close to the Ottoman numbers.. Quantity is a usual first mil idea pick for Muscovy, but i prefer Defensive ideas.

Then again, if you think fighting them is futile, try to ally them, its completely viable. If you lost to them with Poland and Austria as allies, it means you did something wrong.

 

[agonistes]

If you are playing as Russia, you should have a plan for Ottos from day one.

Mid 1500s and they were big enough to beat a human Russia?

You should have been working on alliances while eating GH. Mamluks is a good one, and Austria or Hungary. A Persian nation if any is still healthy.

Don’t ally them! You are the last bastion of Orthodoxy and should take Constantinople!

And Poland didn’t pu Lith - so a) they are a crap ally now, and b) Otto is your only threat the ENTIRE game! Situation should never have developed.

If you want to salvage, ally Otto’s 4 biggest enemies and then start dowing Otto’s weakest link ally, or Otto himself if there is none. Maybe wait for him to dow a large third party before making your first move.

 

[rubinedan]

Can you show us the Ottomans army comp / military tech / discipline / morale / tactics and yours ? The answer might be very simple

I had completed defensive ideas, my mill tech was 13 and theirs was 14. my comp is 4 cav, 12 inf and 12 arty. They just mixed it like an AI.

My Discipline was 100, theirs is 112 a bit before the war. They have completed the offensive ideas

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

I had completed defensive ideas, my mill tech was 13 and theirs was 14. my comp is 4 cav, 12 inf and 12 arty. They just mixed it like an AI.

My Discipline was 100, theirs is 112 a bit before the war. They have completed the offensive ideas

At tech level 14 combat width is 29. So, with 4 cav you should have 25 infantry before you even think about adding a single artillery to a combat stack.
being behind on tech and lower dicipline means you'll need a big numerical advantage too.

 

[rubinedan]

At tech level 14 combat width is 29. So, with 4 cav you should have 25 infantry before you even think about adding a single artillery to a combat stack.
being behind on tech and lower dicipline means you'll need a big numerical advantage too.

But isn't normal that the Ottomans are stronger?

 

[Titanius Puffin]

But isn't normal that the Ottomans are stronger?

You're in a geopolitical knife fight with one of the biggest, baddest empires in the game (at the height of their historical strength).

- I believe regular Ottoman units are better than most European units for early/mid game.
- Your 100 discipline is concerning because it's bad against 112.
- High morale alone tends to fall apart against good discipline, which they have. It means you take heavy casualties one-on-one, and still lose.
- Strong allies are important. Poland wasn't strong (Not without Lithuania or Commonwealth) . The Mughals suggestion is a good one.
- However if your allies are getting besieged and surrendering, then you probably needed to take out some of their armies earlier.

Ideally, You need a tech advantage on them.

If you're going to do this, particularly for the first time, don't do it on Ironman.
Mistakes are normal.

(Edited: spelling, formatting, concision)