What is better: Ardabili or Persian ideas?

[herrhals]

Persia:
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Persia

+5 discipline
+10% goods produced
+20% caravan power (is this any good)?

or

Ardabil
+2 heretic missionary strength (iffy considering I will definitely have religious ideas)
+2 tolerance of faith (awesome)
1 move to mysticism/month is awesome. Free huge boost in manpower every 2 years

 

[Parapluman]

Hehe I have 1500 hours in this game. 20% caravan powe?! no idea whatsoever.
The 1 Mystiscism per month is quite interesting indeed. I didn't know this was possible as a national idea. Would have liked it better if it was legalism, though it definetly makes Ardabili ideas the more interesting option.

 

[herrhals]

Hehe I have 1500 hours in this game. 20% caravan powe?! no idea whatsoever.
The 1 Mystiscism per month is quite interesting indeed. I didn't know this was possible as a national idea. Would have liked it better if it was legalism, though it definetly makes Ardabili ideas the more interesting option.

It is actually Piety -0.05

 

[PhoenixG]

imo Persian is a bit better.
A little bit better mil (+5 disp) and better economy.

While Ardabil is more stable.

 

[Nirmara]

The Persian ideas are better in term of military bonus (+5% discipline) and offer some the economic bonus (+10% tax and, in particular, the goods produced modifier). I would go for Persian ideas without hesitation.

In comparison, Ardabil ideas give many bonus that are not very useful considering that, like you said, you will take religious ideas. (-10% stab cost, +0.02 heretic missionary strength, +1 legitimacy, +2 tolerance).

The extra +20% spy offense is nearly useless because by the point you have formed Persia, there will be very few Shia countries you don't already have a claim on and Feudal Theocracy let you create claims on every provinces for a small sum of MP. The only real perk is the extra mysticism, but manpower should be less of an issue by the time you form Persia and the region is so rich anyway that it's easy to spam mercenaries if needed.

The wiki is not up to date so here are Ardabil ideas for comparison:

Spoiler: Ardabil Ideas

ARL_ideas = {
start = {
global_manpower_modifier = 0.15
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.1
}
bonus = {
prestige = 1
}
trigger = {
tag = ARL
religion = shiite
}
free = yes

arl_safavid_order = {
land_morale = 0.1
monthly_piety = -0.05
}
arl_qizilbash = {
cavalry_power = 0.15
}
arl_shiite_leadership = {
tolerance_own = 2
}
arl_conversion_of_the_masses = {
global_heretic_missionary_strength = 0.02
}
arl_religious_war = {
spy_offence = 0.2
}
arl_amili_mujtahids = {
stability_cost_modifier = -0.1
}
arl_shahs_of_iran = {
legitimacy = 1
}
}

 

[cuendillar]

I went for Persian, largely because of 10% goods produced so early on. Persia has an incredible number of high value goods: 2 gems, 10+ silk, plenty cloth and spices as well as some wine so there's good synergy there. It wan't an easy decision though.

 

[Bayes]

I went for Persian, largely because of 10% goods produced so early on. Persia has an incredible number of high value goods: 2 gems, 10+ silk, plenty cloth and spices as well as some wine so there's good synergy there. It wan't an easy decision though.

Persia region is absurdly strong for trade goods, I cant think of a better region. The good produced when you have secured the persia trade node is nuts.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

I would say Persian ideas hands down. Goods produced, discipline, production efficiency (only 5%, but still) to synergize with the goods produced.

You've already got + 2 TTF from feudal theocracy, +1 from religious will bring you up to +7 TTF; if you're pushing your Shia provinces hard enough that you need more, it's probably because you're at crazy WE, and would have benefited more from the disc up front.

The Piety > manpower thing is nice, and mysiticism gives morale and conversion strength, but again, you're got religious, so the conversion strength isn't that big. You can pick quantity ideas for manpower, and run the religious + quantity policy for morale.

 

[Sfan]

Persia region is absurdly strong for trade goods, I cant think of a better region.

Doab?

 

[ScytheV]

Caravan power is good if you will steer a lot of trade from inland nodes - which is the case for Persia, there is quite a few inland nodes upstream from Mazandaran. So this modifier is useful, if not very strong. Coupled with trade ideas you can achieve sizeable pull in in inland nodes where you do not own a single province.

 

[makaramus]

here is the thing
if you want to play heavy conquest game play as arbadil and convert provinces you get.
if you want to play trade+admin game play as persia and bring global trade to persia trade node or constantinapol if you conquered to there (and for lolz convert culture of konstaniye to persian )

 

[ahyangyi]

I'd pick Ardabil. The reasons:

• - Monthly piety is unique and crazy and I think they are probably going to change it in a later patch... So you are unlikely to see that in the future.
  
• On the other hand, if you play a lot in ROTW you will have quite a few games featuring forming Persia. Forming Persia is just such a common route to succeed... So you will use the Persian idea set in this game or another.

 

[bbqftw]

I can't possibly think of a more useless idea than piety reduction for a Shia country. Practically every war you declare will be a legalism booster.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I can't possibly think of a more useless idea than piety reduction for a Shia country. Practically every war you declare will be a legalism booster.

When it says "reduced piety" doesn't that shove you towards mysticism? Right now, the amount it pushes is more than intended...5% per month, so in 2 years it will max the slider completely even if you do nothing else.

Apparently that's bugged and they intended it to do less, but a significant nerf would make that a very weak NI instead of its present weirdly perma-max slider form.

Anyway even if DoW opposes it as it stands right now you'd offset each DoW's slider movement in 5 months, totally overwhelming all other things affecting the slider.

 

[bbqftw]

Ok, I read that as 0.05 mysticism per month. Which is just too weak to be perceptible..the worst of both worlds

Max mystic always indeed would be strong.

 

[DeerMan]

Agree on the Persian ideas over the Ardabil
But Persian ideas are better or worse than Mughals?

 

[bbqftw]

In SP the Mughal traditions alone are better than Persias entire set