What is a "broken" game?

[Diados]

So Germany can't naval invade Norway (or England) and can't attack Soviet Union from Romania. Not sure those are great solutions.

It isn't the cure for the AI, just a bandage. Right now the AI can do those things but with a skeleton crew on the Russian border it isn't very effective.

Putting in a couple guards should be significantly easier (quicker to implement) than teaching the AI about attrition and naval superiority and strategic significance and forward planning. Like on the order of 1 day vs 1 year.

 

[browd]

Pretty big band-aid. Eliminating several important game possibilities to ameliorate one problem. Sorry, but I can't buy that hot dog. I think the biggest problem is the AI starting wars as soon as it gets war goals from focuses, regardless of whatever else is going on. Fix that and much of the rest of this solves itself.

Even on historical focus, the German AI routinely DOWs Russia in January 1941. The AI could definitely benefit from another 5 months of build up, particularly if it is simultaneously still wrapping up Norway, Yugoslavia and Greece, and doesn't have Romania in the Axis yet. If Italian troops can be freed up from Yugo and Greece, they have plenty of units to send to attrit in Africa, and German won't feel compelled to denude the Eastern Front to rescue its incompetent partner.

EDIT: And another thing that would dramatically improve Axis AI performance would be for Vichy France to get all of N. Africa, Syria/Lebanon, and probably Djibouti. The Free French should just get the territories in Central Africa, S.E. Asia and Oceania. Not only would that be more historical (only those territories participated in the Conseil de défense de l'Empire and later the CNF (Comité national français)), but also it would eliminate a "western front" in Africa that always ties up Italian (and often German) troops.

 

[xtfoster]

So as long as it launches and doesn't CTD it isn't broken???? The idea that as long as it doesn't CTD it's fine is incredibly low bar.

It is not a binary solution.
Not broken DOES NOT mean it is fine. Not broken means it works, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, it is still considered broken if the game loads but you can't do anything once it loads. It is not considered broken if:
1) It quickly becomes apparent that the AI is not up to par in defeating a reasonably skilled human player.
2) You don't like the level (or lack) of content in the game.
3) You don't agree with the design choices (i.e., no fuel/supply, assault guns are not unique from TD/SPG, etc.)
etc.

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

no, you're just rejecting the information he presented because it illustrates how so many have misunderstanding of AI and AI programming. Since so many people are complaining about the AI, it IS on topic

Also based on the information he wrote, there is nothing "supposed" about his knowledge of AI. While we don't know his skill, I can tell you he has at least theoretical knowledge.


nice write up.

No the problem is that I really don't... removed - had a dad-, I don't want, or need a lecture on AI theory.

I don't know anything about AI, but what I do understand that its hard. I understand that it hard to program an AI to do problem solving, learning, Knowledge representation, and pattern recognition. I understand it hard to make an AI see when it's about to be cut off, when to pull back, when to take the defence etc... etc... But I'm not asking for that!

I understand that teaching a machine, an AI, an program a is not like teaching a child.

That's why I understand why even the littlest step in AI is huge leap, and why it takes so long. Things that are simple to a human are not to a machine. You're trying to program a human brain, from the ground up while still not fully understanding our own.
The idea to map the human brain to AI is sometime considered impossible by some since we don't even have a full understanding the human brain.

What I don't understand why you people think I want an AI can understand me, talk back, and say I'm sorry Wildbill I'm afraid I can't let you do that! Where's this coming from? All I want is an AI that's as good or even better the HOI3 that's it. I'm not looking for WarGames here, or Skynet. But that's what people keep thinking! I mean are we all really saying that Paradox can't make an AI as good as any of their over games?

The thing is people, we're taking about a Game AI, not the AI form The Last Question. I'm not waiting for HOI4 to tell me LET THERE BE LIGHT!

But I know even game AI can be hard.

I understand it's hard work, but if it's so hard, and impossible as some have said, then why can so many other games doing it? I'm not getting out my whip, we're already a year into launch. I'm mean we're acting as if Paradox is working for IBM, DeepMind, or something.

I'm not asking for much, just a working product. I've been respectful, reasonable, and understanding to Paradox, and others at least until now as other guy is being an ass.

Even been some what patience(like I said, a year in) while still criticizing them.

So go ahead and ban me from the thread, or don't, it doesn't matter because I'm not coming back to it. I'm done with it.

P.S. Also just I read your blog, I'm sorry for your loss. Great picture by the way.

 

[Taciturn Scot]

WE all see the world differently. Me? I'm astonished that they've managed to create an AI that can play a game with such complex systems as HOI4 has as well as it can. That they are working hard to make it play the game even better is absolutely fantastic IMO.

 

[Surimi]

HOI3 can do the basic. I can fire up COH1 or 2 and have good AI that can do the basic. CK2, and EU4 can do the same. I've played plenty of games that can.

Yeah, again, I remember playing EU4 a good couple of years in and the AI couldn't reliably launch naval invasions. In CK2, the AI would occasionally bug out and refuse to do anything until you restarted the game. Both these things got fixed years after the respective games released. Then there was EU4 AI lagging the game out by constantly enabling and disabling its forts, that was a thing. EU4 AI capturing a single province and then wandering off to the other side of the map.. that one still happens sometimes. EU4's AI attritioning itself to death standing in its own port waiting for a stuck fleet, still happens..

In company of heroes, the AI will routinely walk through heavily defended positions in order to get to territories it wants to cap, because it's utterly, utterly obsessed with capping territories. It's not like it didn't know what was there, either, because it can always see the whole map and will use this information to only attack you when it clearly outnumbers you, it's just so bad at avoiding you when it doesn't want to attack you that it can't figure out when you've got stuff positioned in its path.

I really wasn't kidding. Every complex strategy game has bad AI. It's perhaps a bit more obvious in HOI4 both because the AI has not been worked on for as long and because, as mentioned, the game mechanics are just really, really unforgiving for an AI. In EU4 or CK2, it doesn't matter if you declare war with no troops on the frontline.

 

[jack-wei]

I haven't seen an aggressive Germany that has swallowed up all of Europe and made some advances into the USSR plus they should have some advantages being incredibly tough to overcome, but I've seen Japan finish off China and have a great fight in Burma and Thailand against the allies going backwards and forth.