what if utopian abundant unemployed counted as jobs for bonuses?

[TrotBot]

Imagine boosting the science and unity production of your jobless on universal basic income? Haha

 

[DeanTheDull]

It's still be pretty bad, given how low the base value is.

The nature of % vs flat modifiers is that the %s matter more the bigger the base value. 100% science boost to base 4 researchers is another 4 research. 100% to base 1 unemployed is another 1.

While I will always adore the Treeball Hivemind as the simplest way to play, to afford Utopian Abundance you need an economy that can afford better.

 

[Gnefitisis-3]

Actually, I think utopian abundance causes the job automation AI to act strangely. See my current thread.
TL;DR, the base DOES count the research generated by unemployed pops as value, and (I think) preferences unemployed and valuable pops over not-valuable (non-utopian abundance) pops for jobs.

 

[TrotBot]

It's still be pretty bad, given how low the base value is.

The nature of % vs flat modifiers is that the %s matter more the bigger the base value. 100% science boost to base 4 researchers is another 4 research. 100% to base 1 unemployed is another 1.

While I will always adore the Treeball Hivemind as the simplest way to play, to afford Utopian Abundance you need an economy that can afford better.

Ok but I still want auto-curating vault, research institute, unification center designation, and tech ringworld designation to buff my utopian abundant pops whose jobs were abolished

I get that the effect would be negligible. I read that as: not broken. So give me this, just for roleplay

 

[DeanTheDull]

Ok but I still want auto-curating vault, research institute, unification center designation, and tech ringworld designation to buff my utopian abundant pops whose jobs were abolished

I get that the effect would be negligible. I read that as: not broken. So give me this, just for roleplay

I mean, you can do it for just roleplay now.

When mechanical effects are negligble but justified as role play, role play justifies the same play with negligable effects.

 

[TrotBot]

I mean, you can do it for just roleplay now.

When mechanical effects are negligble but justified as role play, role play justifies the same play with negligable effects.

Nah, the game needs to do flavour things to back the roleplays. Utopian abundance is kind of setting up the expectation that you're abolishing work, but doesn't really do THAT much to make having unemployed people ever worth it. I have natural unemployment of 1 or 2 per colony that means I always have someone to fill a job I build, but I never run a LOT of unemployed like I used to do before the pop rework made pops scarce and too valuable for unemployment. I'd like it to be SLIGHTLY less stupid for me to lean into the unemployment just for flavour.

 

[currylambchop]

Nah, the game needs to do flavour things to back the roleplays. Utopian abundance is kind of setting up the expectation that you're abolishing work, but doesn't really do THAT much to make having unemployed people ever worth it. I have natural unemployment of 1 or 2 per colony that means I always have someone to fill a job I build, but I never run a LOT of unemployed like I used to do before the pop rework made pops scarce and too valuable for unemployment. I'd like it to be SLIGHTLY less stupid for me to lean into the unemployment just for flavour.

Isn't the whole premise of Utopian Abundance that humans like to work naturally?

 

[TrotBot]

Isn't the whole premise of Utopian Abundance that humans like to work naturally?

The idea is that we want to do rewarding labour (in this case intellectual and cultural labour), not work we are forced to do. Like "abolish work" does not mean we stop doing things, it means pursue our passions instead of being driven to take a bad job for bad pay because of the rent or threat of starvation.

 

[Dire]

I'm flexible with respect to what the solution is, but I agree broadly. I mostly don't have unemployment, using default pop growth settings, which to me is the core contradiction with Utopian Abundance's unemployed bonus. Infrastructure is easier to come by than pops. I still like it because of the big happiness bonus of course.

But yep, there's no strategic reason to intentionally phase out jobs. Honestly I don't really expect this to change until there's another econ rework, which I hope implements at least some of the suggestions posted here for advanced economies needing fewer jobs overall. I think it could be a nice lategame flavor opportunity for different empire types to handle the issue differently.

 

[TrotBot]

I'm flexible with respect to what the solution is, but I agree broadly. I mostly don't have unemployment, using default pop growth settings, which to me is the core contradiction with Utopian Abundance's unemployed bonus. Infrastructure is easier to come by than pops. I still like it because of the big happiness bonus of course.

But yep, there's no strategic reason to intentionally phase out jobs. Honestly I don't really expect this to change until there's another econ rework, which I hope implements at least some of the suggestions posted here for advanced economies needing fewer jobs overall. I think it could be a nice lategame flavor opportunity for different empire types to handle the issue differently.

If they got more unity numbers passively from the pops it could shift it more into a different gameplay loop like servitors is different. Maybe even grant unemployed pops another benefit or else the whole living standard gets buffed by somehow buffing happiness effects when you hit 100%.