What if some countries could accept a whole culture group?

[Ololorium]

During my Lotharingia -> HRE playthrough I had and idea: what if some countries (like Lotharingia or reformed HRE) had access to some idea or a unique government form that allowed them to accept a whole culture group at once? Lotharingia could be able to accept German group since it's in a unique position of being in between Germany and France. A reformed HRE, when unified by Germans, could accept Italian or French cultural group, and if unified by some other culture could accept the German group. Another country with a similar idea/mechanic may be some Anglo-French formable nation which doesn't exist in the game right now.
We already have something similar as a unique mechanic for Mughals, so it can be done and is not game-breaking, also it will give big European countries without clear national identity a unique flavour. What do you think?

 

[jdavis86]

It always bothers me that an England who wins the 100 years war can't accept the French culture group.

 

[RobbieAB]

It always bothers me that an England who wins the 100 years war can't accept the French culture group.

Or they could culture shift and promote English and Scottish to accepted...

 

[LSF]

The only cases I think reasonable are Rome with Latin, French, Iberian and Byzantine culture groups and Bharat and Hindustan with all the culture groups of India. Mughals accepting all cultures in India but Bharat not able of doing that sounds weird.

 

[RobbieAB]

@LSF I think a non-german emporer (so Spain, France, Italy) uniting the HRE should probably get German CU accepted as well as their original CU, if you are adding such a feature.

 

[Ololorium]

The only cases I think reasonable are Rome with Latin, French, Iberian and Byzantine culture groups and Bharat and Hindustan with all the culture groups of India. Mughals accepting all cultures in India but Bharat not able of doing that sounds weird.

Yes, Bharat and Hindustan are great examples of countries for which the feature should be used. Rome is also a good case, with Roman ambitions rising above nationalism to include at least all Latin-language countries + the Greeks.

 

[Ekcrbe]

The only cases I think reasonable are Rome with Latin, French, Iberian and Byzantine culture groups and Bharat and Hindustan with all the culture groups of India. Mughals accepting all cultures in India but Bharat not able of doing that sounds weird.

Really the biggest beneficiary has to be Rome. It just sucks that forming it drops your cultural union to like 4% of your development. (Either that or all cultures of your primary group convert to Latin, not just your primary culture) In any case, it would be nice to add more incentives to keep playing out the late game once you're already big enough to be taking this decision.

 

[EarlKonrad]

During my Lotharingia -> HRE playthrough I had and idea: what if some countries (like Lotharingia or reformed HRE) had access to some idea or a unique government form that allowed them to accept a whole culture group at once? Lotharingia could be able to accept German group since it's in a unique position of being in between Germany and France. A reformed HRE, when unified by Germans, could accept Italian or French cultural group, and if unified by some other culture could accept the German group. Another country with a similar idea/mechanic may be some Anglo-French formable nation which doesn't exist in the game right now.
We already have something similar as a unique mechanic for Mughals, so it can be done and is not game-breaking, also it will give big European countries without clear national identity a unique flavour. What do you think?

Won't ever happen as the Mughals special ability is DLC locked. However we may see it be integrated to EU 5.

 

[Sidolowka]

The only cases I think reasonable are Rome with Latin, French, Iberian and Byzantine culture groups and Bharat and Hindustan with all the culture groups of India.

You could also make a case for Andalusia and the Maghrebi group. Currently Granada instantly accepts Basque when forming Andalusia, but not the Maghrebi cultures like Moroccan and Tunisian.

This gets even more jarring when you form Andalusia as one of the Maghrebi nations instead of Granada.

You could also make a case for Beja and the Cushitic group. (As for why Beja isn't in the Cushitic group in the first place I have no idea)

Or the Mongol Empire and the Altaic/Tatar group depending on which you formed it with.

Or Yuan and the Chinese group.

Or reforming the Caliphate and the Levantine group.

Or you could also say that the current culture system is extremely outdated and has no real standard; a complete overhaul similar to state limit -> governing capacity would probably be a better solution than a bandaid patch of certain countries accepting whole culture groups.

 

[BadOrc]

Maybe the Mongoles they did not care that much about religion/culture Just pay your got damm Tribute in time !

 

[nocthesis]

Was doing an Oirat > Yuan run and had this thought too. I think the Emperor of China should likewise have the ability to accept all native Chinese cultures.

 

[Katsue]

It always bothers me that an England who wins the 100 years war can't accept the French culture group.

To be honest, England shouldn't be able to accept cultures other than Scottish or Welsh.

 

[jdavis86]

To be honest, England shouldn't be able to accept cultures other than Scottish or Welsh.

Maybe not. England's starting ruler is technically half French, and it sounds like the English and French aristocrats had more in common, both in language and practices, than not. There is certainly a case to be made for a very similar cultural identity. Maybe by the 15th century this was much less the case than the 13th, I'm not sure.

 

[Katsue]

Maybe not. England's starting ruler is technically half French, and it sounds like the English and French aristocrats had more in common, both in language and practices, than not. There is certainly a case to be made for a very similar cultural identity. Maybe by the 15th century this was much less the case than the 13th, I'm not sure.

At the start of the Hundred Years War, it was an official part of English propaganda that Philippe de Valois intended to invade England and force everyone to speak French.

 

[Titanius Puffin]

England's starting ruler is technically half French

Yep... his French (maternal)grandad, King of France, was mad, and it (likely) ran in the family (this is the 0,0,0 Henry VI we're talking about - worst guaranteed monarch in EU4).
There's always an opportunity for the English to blame the French, particularly when you marry them!

But getting back to the OP; maybe EU4's culture system takes some of the blame here? Since it enforces a rigid yes/no accepted status?
It's likely an easy system to program, but I don't think it's elegant from a player perspective.

 

[RichardOlcese]

We already have that. It's called 'cultural union'. England should have two paths, just like Iranian/Uzbek nations can go Persian or Mughals. In this case, England could go GB if they lose interest in France, or Angevin Empire if they succeed in the continent, thus acceoting Francien cultures.

 

[LSF]

We already have that. It's called 'cultural union'. England should have two paths, just like Iranian/Uzbek nations can go Persian or Mughals. In this case, England could go GB if they lose interest in France, or Angevin Empire if they succeed in the continent, thus acceoting Francien cultures.

Maybe you misunderstood the discussion.

The question is: should tags be able to accept entire culture groups other than their own?

In your example ENG would just choose its primary culture, so it would accept EITHER british culture group OR french culture group, but not both at the same time.

What some people here think is that more tags should have acces to a weaker version of Mughal's Diwan. Like a victorious GB accepting NOT ONLY British culture group BUT ALSO French culture group as well.

 

[RichardOlcese]

Maybe you misunderstood the discussion.

The question is: should tags be able to accept entire culture groups other than their own?

In your example ENG would just choose its primary culture, so it would accept EITHER british culture group OR french culture group, but not both at the same time.

What some people here think is that more tags should have acces to a weaker version of Mughal's Diwan. Like a victorious GB accepting NOT ONLY British culture group BUT ALSO French culture group as well.

I see. Thank you for the explanation. I ask, wouldn't it still be possible, without duplicating the Diwan system, to allow an Angevin tag to keep English as primary culture, while it automatically adds all Francien cultures as accepted? Wouldn't that solve OP problem? What we need here are more formable tags, that may accept other cultural groups.

 

[Alyosha]

Could tie this to the underwhelming Hegemon system, although by that point accepting other cultures doesn’t really assist with anything as the game has been won.

 

[Laurent1944]

Well, historically there is nothing like cultural union magically appearing. An empire like the Spanish ones in the 16th centrury could not keep the Dutch part because of cultural difference. And before that, when Charles V abdicated, he divided his Empire and left the German part of it to his brother, because running a multi national empire was too hard. As for Spain, there is no cultural union existing even now, more than 400 years after its creation...

Basically in real history, all the big empires failed, most of the times because their different components would reject "foreign" rulers.