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Originally posted by King
The Americans like to talk up their role, while other people talk it down. This is so that their counties role (or countries that are near them) looks beter.

Well put. It's all a matter of perspective really. The top dog or cat ;) will naturally try to boost his already large ego by telling everyone how great it is, while the other animals try and downplay this to assuage their bruised egos. :D Seriously, if we were having this conversation say 70-some years ago, it would be you Brits lording it up and putting the rest of us in our place.
 

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Originally posted by Emperor of Europe
If we allow such things to spread, then what are we supposed to spend our time with apart from playing EU2? ;)

Emperor

It's always a pleasure to read your posts as they tend to be objective, well-informed, and often witty, even if I do not always agree. May I ask what you do when you're not posting, playing EU2 or running your playboy penthouse? :D Not a nosy journalist by any chance? :D
 

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Originally posted by Chimera

It's always a pleasure to read your posts as they tend to be objective, well-informed, and often witty, even if I do not always agree. May I ask what you do when you're not posting, playing EU2 or running your playboy penthouse? :D Not a nosy journalist by any chance? :D

Why, thanks. I'm tickled pink :) Let me return the compliment by saying that this forum is definitely the most interesting, intelligent and involving I have seen yet in any gaming community. That's not only because EU is a great game, but because it attracts great people. :)

Unfortunately it would blow the whole International Man of Mystery thing I got going, if I told the sad truth behind my occupation, but let me put it this way: My Mum was happy when she still believed that I made my living by playing the piano at the local brothel. :D

Regards,

EoE
 

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Originally posted by Emperor of Europe


This forum is definitely the most interesting, intelligent and involving I have seen yet in any gaming community. That's not only because EU is a great game, but because it attracts great people. :)

Unfortunately it would blow the whole International Man of Mystery thing I got going, if I told the sad truth behind my occupation, but let me put it this way: My Mum was happy when she still believed that I made my living by playing the piano at the local brothel. :D

Agreed. This forum rocks, especially when the likes of posting grognards like yourself, King, Hanny, Keynes, Blade et al start disagreeing with each other. ;) And mostly in a mature, civilized fashion. I mean, I've moseyed thru forums where half-baked individuals with half-baked notions start tossing insults and curses the second someone disagrees with them. :rolleyes:

So you're somewhere between Austin Powers and a great piano player eh? I like it! But, gotta ask a dumb question: why would a brothel need a piano player?
 

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Originally posted by Chimera


Agreed. This forum rocks, especially when the likes of posting grognards like yourself, King, Hanny, Keynes, Blade et al start disagreeing with each other. ;) And mostly in a mature, civilized fashion. I mean, I've moseyed thru forums where half-baked individuals with half-baked notions start tossing insults and curses the second someone disagrees with them. :rolleyes:

So you're somewhere between Austin Powers and a great piano player eh? I like it! But, gotta ask a dumb question: why would a brothel need a piano player?

I would just like to say you are far too kind. I am just a pedantic SOB who is never wrong, and I have the arguemnts to prove it.:D

A brothel needs a piano player for mood muisic of course.
 
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Jelly Roll Morton, self styled "inventor" of Jazz played piano in a brothel as a young man. Before he upgraded to being a pimp that is.
 

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Originally posted by Chimera

Why would a brothel need a piano player?

Why do supermarkets insist on torturing their customers with in-store music/muzak? Besides, who else would hide behind the piano in the typical western scene, where the sheriff enters the brothel, if not the piano player? :D

Regards,

EoE
 

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On US impact on WWI:

Ayers, Statistical Summary of the War with Germany, 1919

American entry into the war had two opposite effects on the French army: on one hand, it provided a great morale boost as a promise of certain victory.

On the other hand, French soldiers had bore the brunt of the war until then. The French army had been attacking all along the line from the Argonne to the sea for most of 1915, with very little actual British help. In 1916, the Somme was actually a sideshow compared to Verdun, and even then the French supplied roughly 1/4 of the troops during the initial stage. So by early 1917 and especially after the disastrous Chemin des Dames offensive, they felt that offensives now had to wait for the Americans to be present in sufficient force to take their "fare share" of the burden of attacking.

The allied plans for 1918 were to weather the expected German Spring offensive (no reason why it shouldn't be a failure after the extensive Allied experience of such outcomes) while the AEF gathered it's strength, and couterattack when the latter was ready.

The initial success of the Kaiser's battle was a great shock for the Allies, but it was defeated with little American participation. The fight of 2nd US div. at Bois Belleau was important and quite dramatic, and certainly Foch had clamoured very loudly for the div's commitment, but the first German attack was already spent.

The French recovered faster from the shock than the British, and started counterattacking on July 18 near Soisson, with IIRC roughly 10% of the troops supplied by the AEF. This battle (2nd Marne) lasted until August 6th and succeeded in recapturing all the ground lost to the German offensive in the French sector. It wasn't until 2 days later that the British started counterattacking in their sector at Amiens with IIRC 2 US divs in support.

The next significant US battle was St-Mihiel. Now this wasn't exactly a brilliant victory for the AEF, as the Germans had scheduled a withdrawal from this salient starting the day after the AEF offensive started, and so just conducted an almost pre-planned fighting retreat. To say they were defeated is a bit far-fetched.

THE really significant involvement in the ground war was the Meuse-Argonne part of the general Allied offensive, at the end of which the AEF supplied just under 1/3rd of the attacking force.

Their capacity for attacking was actually less than that, for the AEF was quite deficient in artillery compared to the British and more especially the French.

By November, 1918, the AEF had an artillery park of slightly more than 3,000 guns, mostly field and medium artillery. The French had a bit more than 10,000, half of which were heavy artillery. And of the 3,000 AEF guns, 95% had been supplied by the French.

The figures for Aircraft were roughly the same.

Even the munitions fired by US guns were mostly supplied by French production (@ 60% IIRC).

Now most allied shells were filled with US-produced HE, and by Autumn the US were supplying a significant proportion of the chemical weapons used to fill British and French gas shells - although again, I don't think a single US-made gas shell was ever fired during WWI, owing to difficulties with starting production).

The reason for this was mostly the almost total lack of preparation for war in the US. The gear-up went incredibly fast, and had the war lasted into 1919, the US would probably have started supplying the British and French with guns, tanks, shells, etc, but the war ended to early for US industrial mobilization to play any significant role and for the US-built high-tech stuff to reach the front.

The oil question was raised in an earlier post. I don't remember about figures, but the US supplied most of the oil used by the French during the war.

So, had the US never entered the war, what would have happened?

There's no reason the US would have stopped supplying the allies with oil and powder.

I can't see how the outcome of the German offensive would have been significantly different.

The Allies would have counterattacked, although with less troops at their disposal, progress would have been much slower and the German morale collapse less dramatic without US units in the line.

So in all probability the war would have lasted into 1919, by which time social and economic pressures in Germany would have brought about a revolution, or at least enough unrest to bring Germany to ask for terms.
 

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Originally posted by Chimera
Hey Top Cat

Don't mean to denigrate the efforts of Britain in any way, but the Russians should get most of the credit for defeating the German Army, arguably the most fearsome of the three arms. The Luftwaffe was shot out of the skies during late 1943-early 1944, by the RAF and USAAF, but the latter played the more major role because their raids were in daylight and directed against strategic industries, which the Luftwaffe was forced to try and defend. The U-boat menace was largely ended by the superlative efforts of US shipyards, escort carriers, destroyers etc. As for Japan, the US did probably 70% of the work in the Pacific theater. China could not defeat Japan, but tied up a couple million troops that could otherwise have been used elsewhere, and the British efforts in Burma were commendable but on a very small scale.

Again, no offense but the contributions of the Big Three toward defeating the Axis were definitely skewed in favor of Russia and the US.

I would put that more at 90 or 95%, the U.S. being overwhelmingly responsible for Japan's defeat. Secondly, I feel Australia should be given alot of credit since, most of the time they are overlooked. The British, yes played a minor role, the Dutch & French hardly anything and China, well they were fighting to survive, defensively. And then ofcourse you have the Soviet Union, who blatantly decides its time to enter the Pacific War as Japan is already on its knees. And then they, the USSR wants terrority and compensation? Huh? NOT. Its a good think MacArthur told them, literally to go to Hell.
 

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And then ofcourse you have the Soviet Union, who blatantly decides its time to enter the Pacific War as Japan is already on its knees. And then they, the USSR wants terrority and compensation? Huh? NOT. Its a good think MacArthur told them, literally to go to Hell.

I believe that US and USSR had made a deal about Japan. USSR promised that they would not attack Japan until ninety days after victory in Europe. That turned out to be in August, so they definitely kept their word.
 
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The Americans largely fought the naval and island wars but the back of the Japanese regular army and much of it's offensive capacity was broken in Burma by British and Imperial forces (and Chinese).
 
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Just as long as I can repeatedly point out the fact that if Britain hadn't made a stand in the first place the Nazis could have had a free hand in Europe and America would have sat home and played dice, sure.
 

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You know, I never once made light of Britain's involvement in the war, not at all. In fact, I always, regardless defend Britain in whatever it may be; however, it seems that you guys, our loyal and honorable allies never ever want to give the U.S. credit, for anything. Let's put it this way, I strongly believe had the United States not entered the war,and or not had supplied the USSR, UK and the allies in exile with money, arms, etc. its a great chance that Nazi Germany would've indeed conquered the whole of Europe. We can debate this for hours, and by all means let's do so since this is why we're here.;)
 

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Methinks, you'd have to postulate a world much different from ours for the US not to get involved into WWII.
 

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Originally posted by Emperor of Europe
Unfortunately it would blow the whole International Man of Mystery thing I got going, if I told the sad truth behind my occupation, but let me put it this way: My Mum was happy when she still believed that I made my living by playing the piano at the local brothel. :D

Regards,

EoE

So you're part of that sad bunch?
btw, have you ever read Vance's The Blue World? in which a liner spaceship crashes on an ocean planet and the professions evolve into castes, of which yours becomes the lowest?
 
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Just as long as I can repeatedly point out the fact that if Britain hadn't made a stand in the first place the Nazis could have had a free hand in Europe and America would have sat home and played dice, sure.
Uhm..you do know how the Americans got involved the war..yes ?
Japan bombs USA...USA declares war on Japan...Germany declares war on USA......
 
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Besides.
How many carriers did the English/Australians supply at Midway ?
 

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Originally posted by ZheShiWO

Uhm..you do know how the Americans got involved the war..yes ?
Japan bombs USA...USA declares war on Japan...Germany declares war on USA......

FDR was waiting for the first reasonnable excuse to declare war on Germany. Besides, the US was already in a state of quasi-shooting war with the Kriegsmarine in the Atlantic, and blood had already been drawn. So it was a matter of time anyway.

And don't underestimate the British contribution to victory. War exacts its toll in terms of materiel, and there the US contribution was indeed decisive, but also in terms of lost lives, and the British paid a heavier butcher's bill than the US, not least for being involved in the fight much longer.

That the US took almost all the burden of fighting Japan is also perfectly logical: Germany posed a vital threat to the very existance of Britain, and was a much more powerful foe. Allocating so many resources to the Pacific in 1942-44 was a luxury only the US could afford. It would have been much more cost-effective to just stop the Japanese and wait for submarine warfare to slowly strangle the Japanese economy while first defeating Germany before turning the Pacific into a really active theater.

Of course, selling such a strategy to the American public wouldn't have been easy...
 

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Originally posted by Sire Enaique


So you're part of that sad bunch?
btw, have you ever read Vance's The Blue World? in which a liner spaceship crashes on an ocean planet and the professions evolve into castes, of which yours becomes the lowest?

*LOL* :D
Sounds like "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe". Or Douglas Adam (may he rest in peace) just borrowed the idea?

Regards,

EoE