What happens to the Cold War if Nukes are never dropped in WW2?

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User29

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Do the Soviet's become unaware and not try to steal the blue prints? Does the Cold war have a much higher chance of becoming hot? Do we live in a safer world of the future? Does it not even matter and we get a sticker for being able to say we didn't actually drop one?
 

User29

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I doubt Cold War would have been any safer. Nukes were the one big reason why WW3 never happened.

That's a question, Is World War 3 a given without nukes?

Besides wasn't Stalin already well aware of the nukes long before they dropped due to traitors and spies?

Let's say they were well behind schedule. Like not going to be ready until at thery least 1946. Is Stalin still aware then?(Seriously, I don't know when Stalin was made aware :p)
 

JodelDiplom

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That's a question, Is World War 3 a given without nukes?



Let's say they were well behind schedule. Like not going to be ready until at thery least 1946. Is Stalin still aware then?(Seriously, I don't know when Stalin was made aware :p)
Stalin knew about them at the Potsdam conference, when Truman was only making vague statements about a new and powerful weapon. Stalin was at the dinner table and just went "Hmm, aha, you don't say" with a knowing look on his face with most people in attendance interpreted as a sign from Stalin that he already knew what it was. IIRC pro-communist spies had been in the Manhattan program as early as 1943.
 

Eusebio

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There probably wouldn't have been as big an anti-nuclear movement. The US might have used tactical nuclear weapons in Vietnam or Korea.
 

Hibernian

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There probably wouldn't have been as big an anti-nuclear movement. The US might have used tactical nuclear weapons in Vietnam or Korea.

What good would nukes do in Vietnam? The US already levelled practically every building in North Vietnam with conventional bombing (more bombs dropped than by all sides in the whole of WW2), but it didn't do them any good.
 

DarthJF

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Even if they'd never be used, nuclear weapons would still be tested, and governments that developed them would be able to asses their theoretical power. So everyone would still know that nukes can wipe out whole cities in a single blast and treat them with that in mind.

Radiation and its effects would get detected sooner or later as well.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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What good would nukes do in Vietnam? The US already levelled practically every building in North Vietnam with conventional bombing (more bombs dropped than by all sides in the whole of WW2), but it didn't do them any good.

Terrorism, basically. The aim would have been to terrify the Vietnamese into surrendering by massacring civilians. It would have had little practical military application.

As to the OP, things would have been far worse. There would have been less a taboo on using them, and the weapons available would have been much more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb.
 

JodelDiplom

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The Americans could have used them in Korea, against the Chinese, wouldn't they? Looks to me like they would have been itching to use it against a real enemy if they hadn't done so in WW2. And in Korea it would be the next big opportunity to even the odds, and defeat the commies. There were desperate days when the UN troops were hounded down to Pusan - they would have screamed for the bombs to be used, and I wonder how the president could have resisted those calls if there hadn't already been a huge image of nuclear weapons being dangerous doomsday devices.
 

User29

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How could they be demanded if they weren't used? Threatening the use of a secret weapon in WW2 doesn't mean the whole world knows about Nukes. The President might be convinced to use them in Korea sure. but they wouldn't be demanded. They wouldn't be NEARLY as widely known as they were in OTL
 

JodelDiplom

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How could they be demanded if they weren't used? Threatening the use of a secret weapon in WW2 doesn't mean the whole world knows about Nukes. The President might be convinced to use them in Korea sure. but they wouldn't be demanded. They wouldn't be NEARLY as widely known as they were in OTL
It wouldn't stay secret for long. They would have to announce it eventually, to stop wild rumours. You can only keep atomic bomb tests in the desert secret for so long, once wartime restrictions and censorship in the US are lifted.
 

User29

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It wouldn't stay secret for long. They would have to announce it eventually, to stop wild rumours. You can only keep atomic bomb tests in the desert secret for so long, once wartime restrictions and censorship in the US are lifted.

Erhm... The U.S. is a pretty big place. Like... Really big. You can be so remote that no one hears the blast except people you want to hear.


Doesn't stop the radiation from being blown away, but I really think keeping it a secret from 1945-1955 wouldn't be that hard to do if you're only blowing up the desert.
 

JodelDiplom

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Erhm... The U.S. is a pretty big place. Like... Really big. You can be so remote that no one hears the blast except people you want to hear.

I know, I went to school in the Mojave desert.

Doesn't stop the radiation from being blown away, but I really think keeping it a secret from 1945-1955 wouldn't be that hard to do if you're only blowing up the desert.
Even so you are talking about a super mega huge project which ties up countless of people. They drafted most of the top physicists into the Manhattan Project, and they kept their mouths shut while the war was going on, and set up gigantic industrial plants to develop and produce the bombs, which they could also keep obscured or secret, while the war lasted. But once the war is over you have to release a lot of the workers and scientists, and they're not all going to keep their secrets. The Manhattan project was larger than any of the other top-secret armaments projects of the cold war, and the end of the war will mean many people (especially the top scientists, many of whom were not the quiet personality type) won't feel as obligated any more to keep their mouths shut.

And then there's the political side. What reason would there be for the Soviets, to keep their own project secret? Imagine the PR coup if they made their atomic tests public, before the US made theirs. The world would be in awe of the commies, and uncle sam would look like follower, not like a leader, in atomic weapons. They'd have to detonate a dozen bombs all at once in a huge public test, just to one-up the commies and restore the confidence of the nation.
 

User29

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hmm.. true. So then really dropping the bombs at their weakest was for the best. I can definitely see us using them in the Korean War.
 

USViking

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Do the Soviet's become unaware and not try to steal the blue prints? Does the Cold war have a much higher chance of becoming hot? Do we live in a safer world of the future? Does it not even matter and we get a sticker for being able to say we didn't actually drop one?

IIRC German Communist expat physicist Klaus Fuchs was in on the ground floor of the Atom Bomb project from its original inception in the UK circa 1939 under the code name "Tube Alloys". He accompanied the project upon its transfer to Los Alamos in the US in 1942. He probably kept the USSR up to date on AB development from the moment he first heard of it.

Fuchs was eventually convicted of espionage for relaying secrets from Los Alamos to the USSR via a group of conspirators which included the Rosenbergs, among others. He served several years in prison. After release he lived in East Germany.
 

jamhaw

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How could they be demanded if they weren't used? Threatening the use of a secret weapon in WW2 doesn't mean the whole world knows about Nukes. The President might be convinced to use them in Korea sure. but they wouldn't be demanded. They wouldn't be NEARLY as widely known as they were in OTL

I doubt they would be used in Korea for the same reasons as OTL, they would be unlikely to accomplish much and would just cause respect for this great wonder weapon to diminish.
 

SDSkinner

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I doubt they would be used in Korea for the same reasons as OTL, they would be unlikely to accomplish much and would just cause respect for this great wonder weapon to diminish.

The "plan" was to nuke China to get them to pull out. Destroying its urban centers would definitely have an effect- they wouldn't be able to wage war with the level of damage they'd be facing. I think the reason it wasn't used was the fear it could spiral out of control into a general nuclear exchange (also killing tens of millions of people seemed a bit excessive for the gains in Korea).
 

Eusebio

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What good would nukes do in Vietnam? The US already levelled practically every building in North Vietnam with conventional bombing (more bombs dropped than by all sides in the whole of WW2), but it didn't do them any good.

I was talking about Dien Bien Phu. The French requested American air support and dropping tactical nukes on the Viet Minh was seriously considered.