What happened to Scottish Gaelic names?

[HERC0]

If I remember rightly, when CKII was released was there not names such as Máel Coluim instead of Malcolm, Domnall instead of Donald, Donnchad instead of Duncan, Alasdair instead of Alexander etc? Or was this just for specific historical charactes e.g. Malcolm III Dunkeld?

How can I get these back into the game?

Also on a similar note, how can I edit the titles to have Mormaer in Scotland (instead of Earl), Graf in Germany, Greve in Denmark etc? Similar to how the ERE is titled "Basileus" which is culturally correct?

Thanks!

 

[Voy]

They changed it in a patch. Some like it some don't. You can change it back by editing every Scottish character name in the scottish.text and the scottish culture name list in culture.text. Have fun.

You can change the individual names of title in the localisation.

 

[theStormWeaver]

Earlier, the naming of Gaelic characters was inconsistent (some were Gaelic (Mael Miure) and some were not (Malcolm III)). Paradox decided they should be consistent (good plan) and fell on the side of Anglicized versions (debatable as to whether its good or bad).

You'll have to edit the history files (and maybe a name-list for the culture?) to get the Gaelic names back in.

All titles can now have culture specific names, e.g. The Isles is called Soreyar if its held by the Norse, Caithness is Katanes when held by the Norse.

 

[Ruwaard]

An alternative would have been two lists, one Gaelic Scots and another Lowland Scots with the latter being more relevant at later starts.

 

[Tuerai]

Earlier, the naming of Gaelic characters was inconsistent (some were Gaelic (Mael Miure) and some were not (Malcolm III)). Paradox decided they should be consistent (good plan) and fell on the side of Anglicized versions (debatable as to whether its good or bad).

You'll have to edit the history files (and maybe a name-list for the culture?) to get the Gaelic names back in.

All titles can now have culture specific names, e.g. The Isles is called Soreyar if its held by the Norse, Caithness is Katanes when held by the Norse.

It just occurred to me that the alternate names for bits of Norwegian held England and Scotland could've been as a precursor the TOG

 

[Pte Baldrick]

Earlier, the naming of Gaelic characters was inconsistent (some were Gaelic (Mael Miure) and some were not (Malcolm III)).

Just want to mention, that 'Máel Muire' is a completely different name to 'Miles,' as it currently is. Máel Muire means 'servant of Mary,' wheras Miles, a much later name, means a knight or a footsoldier.

'Malmure,' 'Malmore,' and 'Melmer' are all actual Anglicisations of Máel Muire, which could be used instead.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

theStormWeaver is correct regarding the mixture of names. I asked Paradox whether they wanted Gaelic or English names for the Scots, and they said English, so I changed all the names to their English forms where possible. I'm not sure where the infamous Miles of Atholl came from (not my doing) but hopefully some of the more offensive 'translations' will be fixed in 1.10

 

[Redwulf_Storm]

Parashanks (aka Paradox) and I quote: "If we can't get them out, we'll name them out!"
Alas, even in a pixel-land Scotland is not free. . .where, oh where are the warrior poets?!

 

[Hackworthy]

Parashanks (aka Paradox) and I quote: "If we can't get them out, we'll name them out!"
Alas, even in a pixel-land Scotland is not free. . .where, oh where are the warrior poets?!

Haha

I'm interested as to P'dox's reasoning in this matter. Would the Scots not have spoken Gaelic for the game's timeframe? I'm not very knowledgeable on the Scots.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I'm interested as to P'dox's reasoning in this matter. Would the Scots not have spoken Gaelic for the game's timeframe?

Yeah, they would have. At least for a good chunk of the game's time frame anyway. It is my understanding that Chris King wanted them to have English names, and so that's the line that was taken. Make of it what you will. Like you, like Christ and like the Khmer Rouge, I just follow orders.

 

[riadach]

Yeah, they would have. At least for a good chunk of the game's time frame anyway. It is my understanding that Chris King wanted them to have English names, and so that's the line that was taken. Make of it what you will. Like you, like Christ and like the Khmer Rouge, I just follow orders.

Well, from the playthroughs, it does seem poor Chris has extraordinary difficulty reading non-English names.

 

[stephen94]

Yeah, they would have. At least for a good chunk of the game's time frame anyway. It is my understanding that Chris King wanted them to have English names, and so that's the line that was taken. Make of it what you will. Like you, like Christ and like the Khmer Rouge, I just follow orders.

At the games start you would have Galeic in Old Alba, Norse in Galloway, Old English in Lothian and Cumbric in the Strathclyde region. With the founding of the Burghs during the riegn of David I we see English/Old Scots spread quickly along the eastern coast where the brughs are founded (up to Aberdeen) with the fishing villages as well largely English/Scots speaking (probably for trading reasons with the burghs)... As the balance of power increasingly held in the east, with the Highlands increasing destablised you would see by the end of the game Gaelic in retreat, Cumbric dead and Norse only spoken in the Northern Isles...

We need to create a Scottish/North Britain mod...

 

[HERC0]

Okay so I'm looking at the scottish.txt file and we have a lot of these:

332004 = {

name="Adam"​

# AKA: Adhamh mac Cholbain​

How is this implemented into the game? I'm guessing we will see the name "Adam" but what about the AKA bit?


I've also looked at the 00_cultures.txt file and under Scottish names we have this:

male_names = {

Adam_Adam Alan_Alan Alexander_Alexander Alpin Alwin_Alwin Andrew_Andrew
Angus_Angus Archibald_Archibald Arthur_Arthur Aulay_Olaf Brice_Brice Colban_Kolbein
Colin_Nicholas Constantine_Constantine David_David Donald_Donald Dugald
Duncan_Duncan Edgar_Edgar Edward_Edward Ewan_Eugene Farquhar_Farquhar Fergus_Fergus Findlay
Gartnait Gilbert_Gilbert Gilbride_Gilbert Gilchrist_Gilchrist Gilcolm_Gilcolm Gillespic_Archibald Gilmichael Gilmure Gilpatrick_Gilpatrick
Giric_Gregory Godfrey_Godfrey Gregor_Gregory Harald_Harald Hector Henry_Henry Hugh_Hugh
James_Jacob John_John Kenneth_Kenneth Lachlan_Roland Laurence_Laurence
Macbeth Magnus_Magnus Malbride_Brice Malcolm_Malcolm Maldoven Maldred_Maldred Malise_Malise Malmure_Malmure
Matad_Matad Matthew_Matthew Morgan_Morgan Murdoch_Murdoch Nechtan_Nathan Neil_Nigel
Ness Patrick_Patrick Radulf_Ralph Ranald_Reginald Richard_Richard Robert_Robert Ruairi_Roderick
Simon_Simon Thomas_Thomas Uhtred Waldeve_Waltheof Walter_Walter William_William​

How does this work? Some have different variations either side of the underscore but most are identical - what is the purpose of this and what side do I need to change?

I've also added the "mac" and "nic" name prefixes for males and females respectively - why was this retained for the Irish culture but not Scottish?

This Wikipedia page (assuming it can be relied upon!) suggests that the culture in Scotland should be predominantly Gaelic throughout the game's timeframe. The game obviously can't be made perfectly historically accurate, but I think Gaelic names, the "mac" and "nic" prefixes, and "Mormaer" being used for Count level titles (no different to how we have Earl, Basileus, Doux, Farin, Emir etc.) would be far more historically accurate that what we have just now! (I am having trouble finding the file to change the title to Mormaer though??)


Also, will I lose all my changes when the game is patched (and therefore I should keep a spare copy of the .txt file!)?

Thanks!

 

[Sleight of Hand]

The #AKA bits are just notes added by whoever added those characters; they're not read by the game and are technically irrelevant from the user's point of view. Anything preceded by a hash (#) is not read by the game.

 

[HERC0]

Another point I'd like to make! Is 'Anglicising' all our Gaelic Alasdair's to Alexander's and Mael Muire's to Mile's not the same as Anglicising all our German Heinrich's and French Henri's to Henry's (which would be silly!)??? Scottish Gaelic names definitely have a place in this game!

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I think that best solution would be Scottish melting pot similar to English melting pot, but this would change names and culture from Gaelic to Scots. At 867 Scotland is Gaelic kingdom, there's no doubt about that. But later during the reigns of Margaret's sons Scotland starts to become less Gaelic. Lothian and Strathclyde become more important than traditional heartlands of the Scottish realm and there are plenty of new immigrants from France and England. By the end of the middle ages Gaelic is limited to Highlands and is seen as a barbaric language.

 

[ghengilhar]

At the games start you would have Galeic in Old Alba, Norse in Galloway, Old English in Lothian and Cumbric in the Strathclyde region. With the founding of the Burghs during the riegn of David I we see English/Old Scots spread quickly along the eastern coast where the brughs are founded (up to Aberdeen) with the fishing villages as well largely English/Scots speaking (probably for trading reasons with the burghs)... As the balance of power increasingly held in the east, with the Highlands increasing destablised you would see by the end of the game Gaelic in retreat, Cumbric dead and Norse only spoken in the Northern Isles...

We need to create a Scottish/North Britain mod...

I'm thinking the same thing. I'm waiting until Old Gods comes out before trying something, I'm interested to the mechanic of Norse being split up into Norwegian, Swedish and Danish and I'm wondering if we could also throw Norse-Gael in there for the Norse of Scotland and Ireland.

 

[HundredHander]

At the time the game starts the cultural block the game applies isn't really right, it should be far more jumbled. The people of Scotland were not all speaking Gaelic at that time and never did. It would be great if it was tied to culture though, so you get Gaelic names when people are of a Gaelic culture.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I've also looked at the 00_cultures.txt file and under Scottish names we have this:

male_names = {
Adam_Adam Alan_Alan Alexander_Alexander Alpin Alwin_Alwin Andrew_Andrew
 Angus_Angus Archibald_Archibald Arthur_Arthur Aulay_Olaf Brice_Brice Colban_Kolbein 
Colin_Nicholas Constantine_Constantine David_David Donald_Donald Dugald
 Duncan_Duncan Edgar_Edgar Edward_Edward Ewan_Eugene Farquhar_Farquhar Fergus_Fergus Findlay 
Gartnait Gilbert_Gilbert Gilbride_Gilbert Gilchrist_Gilchrist Gilcolm_Gilcolm Gillespic_Archibald Gilmichael Gilmure Gilpatrick_Gilpatrick 
Giric_Gregory Godfrey_Godfrey Gregor_Gregory Harald_Harald Hector Henry_Henry Hugh_Hugh 
James_Jacob John_John Kenneth_Kenneth Lachlan_Roland Laurence_Laurence 
Macbeth Magnus_Magnus Malbride_Brice Malcolm_Malcolm Maldoven Maldred_Maldred Malise_Malise Malmure_Malmure 
Matad_Matad Matthew_Matthew Morgan_Morgan Murdoch_Murdoch Nechtan_Nathan Neil_Nigel
 Ness Patrick_Patrick Radulf_Ralph Ranald_Reginald Richard_Richard Robert_Robert Ruairi_Roderick
 Simon_Simon Thomas_Thomas Uhtred Waldeve_Waltheof Walter_Walter William_William

How does this work? Some have different variations either side of the underscore but most are identical - what is the purpose of this and what side do I need to change?

Things like this, William_William, connect indentical names between different culturers. So any name, within all the cultures that has _Wlliam after it will be considered the same. Which means that if you start with a Scottish ruler named William I, who gets a French heir named Guillaume, then this Guillaume will become, Guillaume II and if that Guillaume has a heir named Wilhelm, he will become Wilhelm III etc.

This also has an effect if a character changes his culture, if you have a Scottish William with a German tutor and this German tutor makes Scottish William a German character, then the name of William will change to Wilhelm.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

At the time the game starts the cultural block the game applies isn't really right, it should be far more jumbled. The people of Scotland were not all speaking Gaelic at that time and never did. It would be great if it was tied to culture though, so you get Gaelic names when people are of a Gaelic culture.

At the start of the Old Gods people in Scotland (and by Scotland I mean Kingdom of Alba) were either Gaels or Gaelized Picts, whose own language was dying out fast. At this point territories of Brythons, Angles and Scandinavians weren't part of Scotland. Later Scotland became more multicultural and less Gaelic, when they conquered territories from other nations.