Nobody is too upset at the game being a fantasy world.
We are upset (IMHO) with the fantasy game being sold and promoted as a WW2 game.
We are upset (IMHO) with the fantasy game being sold and promoted as a WW2 game.
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Maybe in like 200 years they wont care because nobody will remember...lol. The HOI3 system is a lot like the EU3 system, yet nobody really complained about it too much, a little but not much.....and I like the EU3 system...but i loath the system when it is in use in HOI3 mostly cause I still remember WW2 lol.
The only major things i have with HOI3 right now are the AI build routines, where they just build till out of manpower, The superstack problem, and the supply system. From what i hear those might be fixed in 1.4..which would be great.
Id still perfer the scriped AI of HOI2 and the map and tech of HOI3...if only i knew how to merge the 2! ha.
You like the map of HOI3?
With major important battlegrounds nowhere near their real location and a province for every village of 50 people...
Why do you think the AI is so bad? (Hint: Because there are 9 million provinces)
With major important battlegrounds nowhere near their real location and a province for every village of 50 people...
Why do you think the AI is so bad? (Hint: Because there are 9 million provinces)
I purchased HOI III firstly becouse of "rumours" about new "most complex ww2 strategy ever", allmost by accident .
Wow! That was I allways wanted.I didnt know this kind of game exists(I mean, than I tought I found one).
But though I found that HOI III is great from military perspective,however it is to my suprise(shock actualy)geo-polithical fantasy , not WW2" there,not near ww2.
Than after problems with 1.0 I purchased old HOI II Armageddon, and found to my surprise this older game HOI II to be NOT fantasy but semi-historical game ,in its simplicity superior to HOI III in geo-polithical representation of the reality.
Than I found and scrolled down old HOI II forum and found even in 2008 , and 2009 interesting debates there about historical acurracy problems.Even then,before and during HOI III developement, people were devided to realists and non-realists.And thats normal.
What is not normal is that Paradoxinas obviously believed their custommers are compact mass of non-realists neglecting clearly visible strong "faction" of realists on their own forum????
Did they tought all people will learn to love non-realism?
What happend to those dear guys during programming*I know they are clever and have good intentions,but who is their strategian,One that will feel the "pulse" of their custommers?
Do they know how many people crushed in HOI III on first sight expecting most acurrate ww2 grand strategy ever,relieing on great semi-historical HOI II?.It will be hard for them to even accept how many people purchased HOI III just becouse of that,becouse of need for feeling of higher order of realism than ever .
But game is not what expected-THOUGH,it can be,easily,if developer admits problem of semi-fantastic geo-polithical behaviour in the game.
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Your comments about religion are fairly pointless in that HoI3 is something real and tangible and as a result it's not a matter of faith but of experience so your analogy fails.
As to your key point that I should simply not voice my complaints I of course could be equally abrasive as you are trying to be and say that you should stop making posts about how unreasonable it is to want something that is worth playing for 50 bucks. Fact is that no, I don't want to "help" since I paid for something that I expected more functionality from and it's the job of PI to give me what I paid for. It's not my job to "help" sort out the mountains of problems with HoI3 since I am not a programmer. I have pointed out what problems I found as well as the problems found by a lot of other people and that is the extent of my obligations towards fixing a bad product.
I never said that I plan on boycotting PI and in the future i'd be grateful if you stopped lying about my views. I did say that I plan on buying AoD and I did say that when a major product is issued by PI I plan on waiting for several patches before deciding if it's worth purchasing.
As to Matrix, I have a few of the products they make and I am happy with them.
As to HoI3 I expected that I was buying something that gave a better gaming experience then HoI2 and I got something far worse. Plenty of other people feel the same as I do and I could care less if you're to dim or dishonest to realize that such dissatisfaction is well founded. As to 1.4 I have concluded that it's reasonable to expect that a lot of the problems that I have HoI3 will not go away when it's issued and since that will apparently be the final patch I fell very dissatisfied. That you don't want to hear what I or anyone else has to say on the matter simply shows that you've confused yourself with someone whose opinion matters and me with someone that has to put up with you.
Wow
Now tell me how you really feel
I totally agree that you should not have to help. Nor do I think you should 'go away' and 'not express' your views. You have just as much right to express your points as I do. So that we can agree on.
What I was trying to say (which I obviouly failed at making clear) is that the damage is done. Your $50 is gone and the game is much worse that you expected. You have rightly expressed your opnion about it. Howerver, there are two choices to make, keep commenting about how upset you are (justly in your view) or try and help (which you do not have to do nor was I telling you you had to).
Other than venting to the community at large, I do not see any reason to continue to do so. You have expressed your complaints about the game, many will not be addressed in 1.4 (I could be wrong, but my expectations are very low as they were when I bought the game. Which is why I have enjoyed it while others have not. For 1.4, if subs and the superstack issues are fixed, I will be very pleased. Anything beyond that will just be icing on the cake as far as I am concerned).
One last point. I do want to hear what you have to say. And while you personally may not have overly complained, it all starts to run togeather after awhile. So if I have offended you in any way, please accept my appoligies as that was not my intent. I was just tired of hearing the same theme over and over again.
Now tell me how you really feel
I totally agree that you should not have to help. Nor do I think you should 'go away' and 'not express' your views. You have just as much right to express your points as I do. So that we can agree on.
What I was trying to say (which I obviouly failed at making clear) is that the damage is done. Your $50 is gone and the game is much worse that you expected. You have rightly expressed your opnion about it. Howerver, there are two choices to make, keep commenting about how upset you are (justly in your view) or try and help (which you do not have to do nor was I telling you you had to).
Other than venting to the community at large, I do not see any reason to continue to do so. You have expressed your complaints about the game, many will not be addressed in 1.4 (I could be wrong, but my expectations are very low as they were when I bought the game. Which is why I have enjoyed it while others have not. For 1.4, if subs and the superstack issues are fixed, I will be very pleased. Anything beyond that will just be icing on the cake as far as I am concerned).
One last point. I do want to hear what you have to say. And while you personally may not have overly complained, it all starts to run togeather after awhile. So if I have offended you in any way, please accept my appoligies as that was not my intent. I was just tired of hearing the same theme over and over again.
Exactly right,as well as the idea of Switzerland joining ANY faction,and Sweden also.
The other thing that annoys me,is all these very minor countries spying constantly,I mean Bhutan sending hordes of spies to Germany???
Exactly right,as well as the idea of Switzerland joining ANY faction,and Sweden also.
The other thing that annoys me,is all these very minor countries spying constantly,I mean Bhutan sending hordes of spies to Germany???[/QUOTE
That is something I can agree on. I mean, in my HOI3 games Liberia spies Germany constantly. Now, I'm no historian, but according to me you have to be a friggin brilliant spy if you're unspotted then, a negro sneaking around the reichstag in nazi Germany in 1938
Exactly right,as well as the idea of Switzerland joining ANY faction,and Sweden also.
The other thing that annoys me,is all these very minor countries spying constantly,I mean Bhutan sending hordes of spies to Germany???[/QUOTE
That is something I can agree on. I mean, in my HOI3 games Liberia spies Germany constantly. Now, I'm no historian, but according to me you have to be a friggin brilliant spy if you're unspotted then, a negro sneaking around the reichstag in nazi Germany in 1938
Yeah,or a guy in a Turban skulking around the Bendlerstrasse!
You can really see the two sides in these threads:
The realists who believe its a flawed product and game and will need alot more
attention by PI if its ever going to be a playable but realistic game on WW2
and
The faithful who believe the next patch (and there always appears to be a
next patch) will make the game perfect and can't understand what the problem
the rest of us have with HOI3.
The realists who believe its a flawed product and game and will need alot more
attention by PI if its ever going to be a playable but realistic game on WW2
and
The faithful who believe the next patch (and there always appears to be a
next patch) will make the game perfect and can't understand what the problem
the rest of us have with HOI3.
The game itself works right now- you will have little trouble playing the game to a conclusion. The question is why you would want to. The games biggest problem is it has no soul. Every nation plays EXACTLY the same as every other nation. This is incredibly boring. In HoI2, I actually felt like I was playing germany or japan or the US. In HoI3 it's more like the grey faceless blob or the blue faceless blob. There is no attachment or immersion into the game at all. It is just an empty shell. The other major issues right now are these:
-Japan loses to China way to often. After modding in more ports, removing the hainan crossing, and changing Japan's DoW to shanxi instead of Nat. China (no commies!), they still lose more than half the time.
-The SU gets run over by a german player. Once the AI's front collapses they are screwed, and never recover. 4 Years of brutal war? The SU is lucky if it lasts 4 weeks.
-Setting up your army is a micromangement nightmare. The first hour of most games is simply spent reorganizing your army. And if you let the AI have control, they just break up the structure that you spent so long to build.
The game is generally stable and playable though.
-Japan loses to China way to often. After modding in more ports, removing the hainan crossing, and changing Japan's DoW to shanxi instead of Nat. China (no commies!), they still lose more than half the time.
-The SU gets run over by a german player. Once the AI's front collapses they are screwed, and never recover. 4 Years of brutal war? The SU is lucky if it lasts 4 weeks.
-Setting up your army is a micromangement nightmare. The first hour of most games is simply spent reorganizing your army. And if you let the AI have control, they just break up the structure that you spent so long to build.
The game is generally stable and playable though.
In other words it still too bugged to play. Just a matter if you can deal with it or not.
Its not so bugged in clasical sence.It can be played.
Its "Danish syndrome" that on long run treathens the game status.
Its simply wierd geopolithics of anbelievable alliances that to many, maybee even critical mass of players simply cant stand .
Its those moments when like example: Denmark suddenly in late 1939 becomes Allie and with its fiew poor brigades "atacks" neighbouring Germany which is on highest point of its might.For "armchair general" that purchased"most complex WW2 grand strategy ever" to see such things in his game is nothing less than offence.
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Let us be specific
The game has what many people consider 'flaws'. These 'flaws' make the game not fun for them. Bugs on the other hand prevent the game from actually running or cause the system to 'break'. While many people feel certain parts of the game are 'broken' (supply, subs, interceptors, etc.) they do not cause the system to break (i.e. they do work, just not like we think they should). So they are NOT bugs, just flaws.
As far as I can see, there are very few actual bugs in the game (I have been able to finish many games all the way back to 1.0) without seeing a 'bug'. There are many flaws though and those are what is causing all the discussions on the forums.
As a specific example, the super stack issue is a flaw, not a bug. It does not cause the game to stop functioning, it reduces the amout of fun the game can deliver.
The game has what many people consider 'flaws'. These 'flaws' make the game not fun for them. Bugs on the other hand prevent the game from actually running or cause the system to 'break'. While many people feel certain parts of the game are 'broken' (supply, subs, interceptors, etc.) they do not cause the system to break (i.e. they do work, just not like we think they should). So they are NOT bugs, just flaws.
As far as I can see, there are very few actual bugs in the game (I have been able to finish many games all the way back to 1.0) without seeing a 'bug'. There are many flaws though and those are what is causing all the discussions on the forums.
As a specific example, the super stack issue is a flaw, not a bug. It does not cause the game to stop functioning, it reduces the amout of fun the game can deliver.
Here in this moment you made crtical conclusion,which we all know actualy,but is hard to accept.
There is no patch that can fix HOI III as it is.
Addon.
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Yeah, but some of them are ridiculosly easy to fix yourself.
Like this one helped me, it had great implications on the AI causing a game to be completely stupid for britain AI
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10746362#post10746362
So small little thing! just to delete one adjacency to a province and whoo, britain can fight over its colonies again. Wooot!
Please, please dont tell me that in 3 patches so far such triviality is not fixed jet?!.
Thats how will be with 1.4 to.
Sound, logical feedback. Different countries do play very similarly, now that I think about it (country-music aside). Though I cannot figure out the discrepancy b/w HOI2 and 3 that causes this...
The "micromanagement nightmare" is not a big complaint of mine, since I made into a little mini-game, but all the rumors are that this is the first thing going into an addon. Johan himself said failing to include an OOB editor is one of the bigger mistakes/oversights he made in HOI3's development.
Numdydar, your point is definitively/syntactically correct, but I think most people do not care to distinguish between "bug" and "flaw" with this fine of precision. Your point, if true, is a bit pedantic. Bug, flaw, ... either one is something that the fan base wants fixed. If you substitute "flaw" where people mistakenly said "bug", we end up at the same point anyway.
Unless there is a reason why the distinction between "bug" and "flaw" is relevant? (If so, it escaped me)
The game has bugs, silly AI, and some new features are detrimental to the gameplay. That's about it. I did have a few nice games, though. Still, I'm currently waiting for AoD to tide me over until the inevitable HoI3 xpack.