What Habitat really needs is a clustering and restriction system

[Droiyan7]

There are always many players that hate Habitat. Why? AI used to spawn so many little Habitats, which makes conquering and managing them enormously tedious.

If something is inconvenient in the game, it should give the player a sense of directing something important in the game and help in immersive play. Many of the inconveniences in Stellaris are simply uncomfortable, however. Because it's just a natural result of bad design.

Despite the significant improvements in several patches, it is still the number one reason many players feel Habitats are intolerable. Rely on MODs like No AI habitats.

Is Habitats really an irreparable thing from the very root of design? I think it's a very simple and easy-to-solve problem with proper adjustments if it is implemented by PDX.

The point of the idea is that the concept of building several Habitats in close proximity and managing them as a single group, adding higher upgrade steps than the current final upgrade of Habitat. Those upgrades are graphically multiple habitats, but the system just works as a single habitat with a much larger size. Like the size of 12 (6 sizes 2 Habitat clustering), 40 (8 sizes 5 Habitat clustering), or even larger.

• Adjustment of Voidborne may be needed, like +(1 + clustering size) Habitat Building Slots instead of fixed +2
• Increasing the max number of building slots may be helpful for huge size Habitat by maxed clustering.

And making AIs prefer to upgrade a small number of habitats as much as possible, rather than building new habitats. And build new habitats only as the very last resort.
It will have a much better(less) lag effect than it is today. Conquering, or managing them will be so much easier.

When AI chooses where to build Habitat, it will also be helpful to increase the weight of the exploitable resources, especially the three strategic resources(Exotic Gases, Rare Crystals, Volatile Motes).


After researching advanced Habitat tech, adding the ability to build a Habitat with as much upgraded as possible (one-click order to build a Habitat to directly to maximum upgrade available) will be a great help for player convenience.


Adopting Habitat restriction system like Habitats Capped Dynamic, Gigastructural Engineering & More will be very useful.

 

[hart30]

I also created a mod for this. Players still are allowed there to build habitats whereever they want, but the ai only is allowed to build them over ressource deposits. This allows the ai to get access to special district habitats, while limiting the spam. This seems to be a good solution.

 

[HFY]

I also created a mod for this. Players still are allowed there to build habitats whereever they want, but the ai only is allowed to build them over ressource deposits. This allows the ai to get access to special district habitats, while limiting the spam. This seems to be a good solution.

IIRC the AI also has a problem whereby they can't ever remove mining stations to "uncover" deposits.

Does your mod fix that?

 

[drawar]

Putting arbitrary limits and even worse that penalizes AI (which already has its own weaknesses) is never a good solution, unless there really is no better alternative or temporarily, if the problem is really too annoying, while waiting for the system update.

The problem of habitats is quite simply the same problem for mega-infrastructures and terraforming. It is very inexpensive when you have a relatively developed economy. There is no real maintenance fee, no real penalty. Due to the pop growth system, it is more beneficial to have many planets and habitable structures. There is no option to foster the development of planetary megalopolises (which does not mean Ecumenopolis) by funding an increase in the planet's district limit by building underground, oceanic, air / space structures unlocked via technonologies. The most important thing is that it must have a significant maintenance cost. It has to be profitable, but that requires funding the districts / buildings and having the pops to work there. Even if it is profitable, it must weigh on the economy and not only at the time of construction.

For example :

Civil and military logistics
The logistics capacity is the ability of the empire to maintain its spatial structures and fleets.
It is not abstract, simple bonuses with numbers. It requires an infrastructure, resources and personal ...

Civil logistics :
Civil logistics capacity is used for the operation of mining and other stations, starbases and megastructures (including habitats and gateways).
The more a starbase is developed, the more modules and buildings it has, the more they consume civil logistic capabilities.
Civil logistics capacity is produced by logisticians. These consume alloys and goods.

Some logisticians jobs are created by the capital buildings, but to fill the needs of a real space empire, it will be necessary to build: small warehouse or warehouse.
These buildings also consume a significant administrative capacity.

Habitats require a high level of logistics, but once developed, the balance can be positive.
The trade district creates as employment: 1 merchant, 2 clerks and 2 logisticians. The Gestalt Consciousness would have an equivalent.

The megastructures would have a phenomenal logistical need, but it would no longer be limited in number.

Civil logistics is managed by sector. However, surpluses are redistributed throughout the empire.

A spatial structure with a logistical deficit works less well, until it becomes inactive, if less than 25% of its needs are met.
Habitat with less than 25% of its needs will be completely inactive and habitability will be 0 for organics, if they are not relocated or if the problem is not resolved. Organic pops will start to die.
A special decision that costs the influence makes it possible to mount an emergency evacuation operation, the pops will be relocated elsewhere, but they will be traumatized for a moment, a major loss of mood.

It is possible to disable spatial structures and define priority spatial structures.

Military Logistics :
The military logistics is similar to civilian logistics, but it is dedicated to the maintenance of space fleets.
The soldiers no longer increase the naval capacity, but they generate instead a little unity while consuming alloys.

The military logistics is created by sailors by consuming alloys and goods.
These jobs are created by the small military base and the military base.
Like warehouses, they consume a significant administrative capacity.

If the military logistics capacity is exceeded, some ships will suffer from a deficient maintenance (be less effective). At the bottom of 25%, the ship become inactive.

Priority fleets can be defined. Dockside fleets consume less logistics.

A fleet can be decommissioned, its logistic capacity and maintenance will be greatly reduced, but its shields will be deactivated and the armor and hull will be 25%.

I like megastructures, they can be very powerful, but I find that it often loses their aura of megastructure. Indeed, once its economy in place, we can chain the megastructure without problem, even build several at the same time. They become commonplace and the notion of exploit of the empire for their construction is only humbug...

I do not like the arbitrary limits for the Dyson Sphere and Matter Decompressor, though I understand them.

I therefore propose two approaches to "solve" this problem, the two do not exclude each other and could be implemented togethera

Limit :
A simple method would be to put a value of "megastructure capacity", much like the starbase limit.
This limit can be exceeded, but it will occassionnent important penalties.

This limit would be essentially increased by the population level of the empire, to keep this simple, but I had already talked about a civil logistics system on another topic if you want a complex system.

Thus, building a habitat or ring-world will consume megastructure capacity, but once populated enough (if it's new pops and not only internally displaced people to empire) it will unlock megastructure capacity.
So it's still possible to chain the megastrucures, but it is not enough to produce alloys, but also the population growth, if one has reached its megastructure capacity limit.

Each megastructure consumes a different megastructure capacity depending on its importance.
A ring-world much more than a habitat or gateways.
A Dyson Sphere completed more than an unfinished Dyson Sphere.

Maintenance :
Another simple way, but more impacting on the empire would be that the mega-structures have real costs of maintenance weighing on the economy of his empire.

This means a non-derisory energy maintenance cost, a significant alloy maintenance cost and for many megastructures a cost in strategic resources.

Consumption of strategic resources :
- Gateways : dark matter?
- Habitat : none or a little exotic gases?
- Ring world : exotic gases
- Dyson sphere : rare crystals
- Matter decompressor : volatile motes or dark matter?

For the alloy maintenance cost, I think 1% of the total alloy cost of the megastructure (excluding the cost of the site, the 5000 starting alloys).
This gives a cost of 30 alloy per month for a habitat and 500 for a ring world, dyson sphere or matter decompressor.

It seems to me acceptable for a habitat, especially once the improvements of the Alloy Foundries unlocked, after we can add 1 or 2 district as needed to compensate.
It seems to me relatively little for a ring world. I wonder if we should not increase the cost of each segment to 15,000 or 20,000 alloys. However, it would also depend on the cost of strategic resource, if it exists.
For the dyson sphere or matter decompressor, if necessary, the productions can be adjusted upwards if necessary.

The dyson sphere and matter decompressor would not be limited to 1 copy, it is their maintenance cost that counterbalance their power. The energy and mineral is good, but it is still necessary to have the industrial capacity to use them to make them useful for other megastructures.

In addition, the cost of building the dyson sphere could depend on the type of star (depending on its size) and the amount of energy produced would also depend on the type of star.

Then we have to reform the invasion system of planets/structures.
But I would have to finish updating old ideas as they would need a little simplification and improvement. But the basic idea would be that the ships would have a crew instead of having separate troops (with a manpower system). And that thus the planet invasions are also an important military operation which can weaken the enemy fleets without necessarily adding planetary defense weapons and also immobilize a part of the vessels without being able to create an infinite number of invading troops to smash everything by the brute force while adjusting the "bunker worlds". But hey, I would have to detail this elsewhere, when I feel like it and the time.

 

[mial42]

IIRC the AI also has a problem whereby they can't ever remove mining stations to "uncover" deposits.

Does your mod fix that?

That's not necessary any more.

 

[HFY]

That's not necessary any more.

Oh did an update fix that? If so, nice!

 

[mial42]

Oh did an update fix that? If so, nice!

Yes, it's quite helpful for Void Dwellers playthroughs.

 

[exi123]

Coming along this suggestion is the idea i never had on how to implement a tall playstyle with vast options to develop systems to actual vibing economic-powerhouses.

I always had in my mind that it should be possible to develop systems beyond planets and the regular stations. With the ability to cluster entities it should also be possible to build/expand stations for further development. While a habitat orbits planets (no matter which, gas giants, toxic worlds or whatever) as an artificial planet, smaller stations can be build on all surrounding moons, asteroids, inhabitable planets and so on. The jobs are bond to the cluster.

-Mineral/energy deposits on smaller things could add astro mining/generator districts with one job for example (can be expanded with tech later on, the output is dependand on the amount of the base resource value), same for rare deposits.
-Entities without natural resource can be used for further development like indutrial districts, entertaining, housing and artificial space for food production. Let me setup factories and forges on the moon...

Coming to regular planets, it would also be cool if i could create more space on them. Why cant i put a ring on a planet for more building slots or housing/industrial districts? Planets could also have clusters, adding the option to exploit neighbouring asteroids, moons and planets as habitats do. A planet is just the base to develop a whole system.

This stuff can be seperated from the base game and would be an interesting addition packed into a DLC which rethinks trade and economic development.