What expansion after MTG?

[SeekTruthFromFx]

I really, REALLY, dislike the idea of a separate Islamist ideology. Such a thing should only be a national spirit / leader trait / maybe even a new Religion tabs. If it's an ideology, how long before we get cheese Islamist USSR WC.

Islamist Ideology makes no sense in this time period. The only countries were there were strong Islamist movements were Egypt (here other groups were more relevant) and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia were it wasn't so much an ideology but an anti-modern tribalism thing.

Thank you for these comments. That line was very cryptic. The line of thinking behind it was this:
- If Albania is to be made playable beyond 1938-39, it needs friends who will fight it with against Italy
- The obvious candidate is Turkey, but Ataturk didn't care, and most Albanians would have been horrified by an Ottoman revival
- The Bektashi Order was influential in both Albania and Turkey, and was fiercely anti-Italian, so maybe it would be somewhat plausible (and more importantly, fun!) to have an alt-history where the Bektashis join together
- So you could have NFs to start civil wars in Albania (Bektashi vs Zog & the liberals) and Turkey (Alevi-Bektashi vs Ataturk & the Kemalists). If successful, they then take on Italy together.

Given the way that HoI politics currently works, you need different (sub-)ideologies to have a civil war. A Bektashi sub-ideology seems a bit specific, hence Islamist. But I was thinking Sufi, 'left' Islamism, not the Salafi/Wahhabi 'right' Islamism that makes the headlines today.

I also don't think that I want the Partisans back from HoI3 Partisan divisions on the map only makes sense for late Yugoslavia. Most partisans were minor movements solely relying on Propaganda and small sabotage acts.

I would like to see some kind of uprising mechanic were you can get a few small divisions to rise up but not in more than one province.

It makes sense for Albania as well: the Albanian and Yugoslavian Communists had plenty of disagreements, but apparently had very similar military tactics. But I was also thinking of something like the Infiltration Decisions for Communist China: some way for an exiled human player to sabotage the enemy. Maybe spy units could have a Sabotage Mission with different priorities (it might look something like the Strategic Bombing mission and priorities for some air units).

Wow, that must have been an effort to combine all these informations, appreciate your work.
I disagree only on one point — I think (and desperately hope), that the Soviet rework will come much earlier than late 2020.
Also, if the devs are going to do an aircraft rework similar to the current naval one (which is also not guaranteed, as of right now) and/or a heavy partisan rework (which I think/hope is more likely to happen), I think it would much better suit, when bound to a Soviet "Proletarians of All Countries Unite!" or "For the Land of Our Fathers!/For the Motherland!" kind of update, than Balkans (which already received a major update), or France/Italy (which are guaranteed to be reworked sooner or later, yet are now in a much better state, than the Onion) updates.

Edit: yet I also very much agree on espionage being something very Soviet in nature, and a "From Russia with Love" Onion rework + espionage mechanics would also make for a great combination.

Thank you for your kind words. I can see that there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the Soviet tree. But which of these combinations strikes you as more plausible:
- French & Italian aircraft DLC + Soviet tank DLC?
- Soviet aircraft DLC + French & Italian tank DLC?

It seems to me that the USSR is more associated with tank design than aircraft design. And the aircraft designer should come first, so that tank engines can be a variant of aircraft engines. So, if I ruled the world (!), the Soviet tree would have to wait so that all countries got interesting aircraft and tank design choices.

Also instead of tying in non aligned with a political part why not have it as a seperate option you need to remove if so desired. This way you can add more parties.

Have a far left, center left, center, center right, and far right party. They would have attached policies already based on their platform which can be changed once the party gets into power. It would also allow things to get more interesting in the postwar years.

This would mean tearing up the existing system and starting again. It's an interesting idea that deserves fleshing out, but I was trying to work within what we know of Podcat's past choices and future plans.

 

[JackAlNXT]

So you could have NFs to start civil wars in Albania

The idea itself is interesting, but the problem is the map. Albania only has 1 state and unless the devs add at least one more state then a civil war would literally be impossible.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Play historical with small variants. Then you got Civil Wars without end. I play Germany (I love that Nation about their power of Industry and the secret as well as low cancel of the Versails-Treaty) and got Hungary / Rumania synchronise first. The AI suit herself to the light anomaly and got Rumania in a Civil War (Neutral against Fashist), Italia was befriend with Yougoslawia etc.

You have manually so many chances to change the World, why to hell you wanna have the uninterinsting and weak States primary? The Devs have to concentrate on the important States (like Mexico, Skandinavia, USSR and other important Communist States, Netherlands etc.) to bring in the Missing things. And that´s important. With Man the Guns and Patch 1.6 it´s the first big Step in Paradox 5-Year-Plan to get in the first important missing Things.

And that´s not the weak Countrys like Albania, Agypt and others which are integrated in a big Country as Leader or in a subjection to keep still the feats. That´s the Fact in the Timeline you playing.

Be happy to get improved the Game so fast with several Patches and 3 DLC´s in 1,5 Years to get the complete Commonwealth-Staates, important and minor Asia-States (China and the Warlords) and importent minor Faschist-States (Hungary, Rumania, Austria, Bulgaria) playable, as well as from beginning on the neutral / allied State Poland.

The imporatend things for the next Patches / DLC´s are:

a) make Research, Devolopment, Focuses, Upgrades / Conversion from Planes (Airforce) and Tanks, Guns, Self-Propeld things (Army) in one Peace to the new Navy-Standard we get in 1.6 and DLC Man the Guns!!!!!

b) bring in full Skandinavia-States (Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden) as well as minor Communist States (some are in South America, Asia) to the Game

c) upgrade the major Communist State (USSR), forgotten major Allied States (France etc.) as well as minor Allied States (forgotten Benelux-States etc.) in Focuses, Events and other important things

d) make Trade more interesting. Instead Factorys you can trade other raw Material the trading State needs, Technology or something else like in the Predecessors you have in exess

e) make Economy more intersting. For the build-ups of Factorys, Shipyards, Harbors, stationary AA and other normal Buildings from beginn on you need Iron and / or Aluminium too. For more special Buildings like Rocket-Bases evtl. Chrom and Tungsteen.

f) bring in Spionage / Espionage (they have it on the List, but when it comes we don´t know)

That´s the most important Job-Sites Paradox have to bring in in the next Patches / DLC´s. And that´s enough to to with AI-Fixing and other Bugfixings.

The prioratys were:

1. Point d), e) and c) (major allied States) in Patchupgrades [Patch 1.6.x]
2. Point a) (fully), b) (maybe full Scandinavia), c) (all Remaining of that) in Patch 1.7 / DLC [Name Whatever]
3. Point f) and b) (all remaining) in Patch 1.8 / DLC [Name Whatever]

 

[JackAlNXT]

Bulgaria? Playable? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH!

Nice joke, mate.

 

[Duke_Dave]

Okay

Thank you for these comments. That line was very cryptic. The line of thinking behind it was this:
- If Albania is to be made playable beyond 1938-39, it needs friends who will fight it with against Italy
- The obvious candidate is Turkey, but Ataturk didn't care, and most Albanians would have been horrified by an Ottoman revival
- The Bektashi Order was influential in both Albania and Turkey, and was fiercely anti-Italian, so maybe it would be somewhat plausible (and more importantly, fun!) to have an alt-history where the Bektashis join together
- So you could have NFs to start civil wars in Albania (Bektashi vs Zog & the liberals) and Turkey (Alevi-Bektashi vs Ataturk & the Kemalists). If successful, they then take on Italy together.

Given the way that HoI politics currently works, you need different (sub-)ideologies to have a civil war. A Bektashi sub-ideology seems a bit specific, hence Islamist. But I was thinking Sufi, 'left' Islamism, not the Salafi/Wahhabi 'right' Islamism that makes the headlines today.



It makes sense for Albania as well: the Albanian and Yugoslavian Communists had plenty of disagreements, but apparently had very similar military tactics.

I get it you want an Albanian focus tree. I would certainly like the idea but I think like Austria it will never get one. Too small.

 

[Lord Beyer XVII]

Albania is there pretty much only to be eaten by Italy, pretty much like Austria is there only to be eaten by Germany (or rarely by Hungary), and Tannu Tuva to be consumed by the Onion. Turkey was neutral and did pretty much nothing for almost the entirety of the irl WW2, but might offer some interesting alt history paths. Bulgaria might be a candidate, but they have no specific role or goal, other than not to be eaten by Yugo, Romania or Greece. If anyone from this region, Greece should get a NF tree, since they actually played a significant enough role and also offer for different potential playstyles. They might pursue Balkan domination, try to outdo Italy's navy and dominate the Mediterranean, go on and restore Byzantium, or just go on historically and struggle fending off axis troops, trying to survive until the allies come over to help.

On the opposite side of ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶l̶d̶ Europe, there is an other candidate, that definitely deserves a deep NF tree, and that is Finland. They might not have mattered that much overall, yet mind, that they were at war with the Onion for almost the complete duration of The War (with an about half a year break in-between), and survived! The Reich fell to the soviets, yet Finland survived! And all thanks to very, very very intelligent and careful political play by Mannerheim and very smart troop usage due to terrain knowledge. This results in a very interesting, all be it challenging, mix of politics and warfare, that would certainly lead to interesting gameplay. So imo they're a county, that absolutely should get a NF tree.

 

[Duke_Dave]

Bulgaria was in the axis, had plane designs of their own and had a long history of militarism sometimes being called the Prussians of the Balkans.

Turkey was at atimes short of joining the allies or axis, had a communist and fascist movement that would make for an interesting alt-history and had ambitions on Syria and Iraq.

I would live to see all three with Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi-Arabia.

 

[Uliono]

It seems pretty much confirmed from earlier teasers that they are thinking about reworking the Soviet tree in the next patch. But MTG has also showed they aren't afraid to add focus trees in somewhat disconnected parts of the world at the same time, so they might not just add focus trees to the Soviet area. As a result, I see the next expansion going two ways:

1. A relatively small and focused expansion in the manner of DoD:
   • Make the overall theme Eastern Europe/Soviet focussed.
   • Rework the Soviet and Polish focus trees (close together, so makes sense and they can interact)
   • Add a Finnish and a Turkish focus tree (again, close to Soviet Union and can interact)
   • Make some smaller changes to mechanics that fit in with their previously stated roadmap and the Soviet theme. Quoting from it:
     • "A logistics system with more actual player involvement (now you only care once stuff has gone very badly)"
     • "Make defensive warfare more fun"
     • "Adding mechanics to limit the size of your standing army, particularly post-war etc"
     • "Have doctrines more strongly affect division designing to get away from cookie cutter solutions and too ahistorical gamey setups"
2. A big expansion in the manner of MTG:
   • Make the overall theme a land warfare and civil war overhaul.
   • Rework the Soviet and French focus trees (both being major land combatants, who have the potential for civil wars - e.g. Trotsky/anti-communists in Russia, communist uprising in France).
   • Add a Finnish or Turkish tree (not sure which fits in better) and add Spain focus trees (for Republicans and Nationalists). Spain could make sense because (a) it is near France so can have interactions there; and (b) the Republican tree can interact with the Soviet focus tree as fellow communists.
   • Make larger changes to mechanics that fit in with the previously stated roadmap and land warfare/civil war overhaul theme. Quoting from it:
     • "A logistics system with more actual player involvement (now you only care once stuff has gone very badly)"
     • "Make defensive warfare more fun"
     • "Adding mechanics to limit the size of your standing army, particularly post-war etc"
     • "Have doctrines more strongly affect division designing to get away from cookie cutter solutions and too ahistorical gamey setups"
     • "More differences between sub-ideologies and government form"

If they go with option 1 I can see the following expansion being Mediterranean themed (French, Italian, Spanish and Greek focus trees?) and so they could add in the civil war/espionage changes then.

If they go with option 2, then they need to find a theme that links together Italy and Poland (the last major trees that would need reworking), so maybe they leave "spies and espionage" from the roadmap for that, and build out the partisan/resistance mechanics as the theme? Although admittedly it is hard to see what minor trees they would flesh out at the same time with that theme. Possibly Greece and Turkey and they could then at least interact with each other/the Italian tree.

 

[Flight_of_Icarus]

What I want is a Winter War DLC. USSR and Finland both get new Focus trees, along with Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Maybe add winterization mechanics. I would really like it if they gave Finland a chance against the Soviet Union. Historically, they were able to hold out and make a ceasefire, but in the game as it sits, they get stomped by the Soviets pretty easily.

Maybe add in a couple options to support the Finns as Allied or Axis nations. As for Finland, Communist, Fascist, and Democratic paths would all be welcome. maybe there wouldn't be a winter war at all, instead a Finnish Socialist Worker's Republic in the Commitern? Each one would have options to seek support from outside patrons, although you could also remain unaligned and/or Democratic and still seek help from Nazi Germany. Finland would also have elections, as was historically accurate in 1936.

The Swedish and Norwegian trees would also have options to interact with Finland, though they would have their own paths. Quisling in Norway, anyone? As for Denmark, well, you could cooperate with the Nazis, or move the government to Greenland/Iceland/Exile in Great Britain and keep fighting. Speaking of which, having a government in exile mechanic would be neat.

 

[CrazyZombie]

What I want is a Winter War DLC. USSR and Finland both get new Focus trees, along with Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Maybe add winterization mechanics. I would really like it if they gave Finland a chance against the Soviet Union. Historically, they were able to hold out and make a ceasefire, but in the game as it sits, they get stomped by the Soviets pretty easily.

Well, it happens because you can't force Soviet AI to act with the same degree of retardness as real command did at the start of war. Both AI and players will concentrate enough forces to finish fight in a matter of month or less.

 

[Flight_of_Icarus]

Well, it happens because you can't force Soviet AI to act with the same degree of retardness as real command did at the start of war. Both AI and players will concentrate enough forces to finish fight in a matter of month or less.

True, but what we've essentially got with Finland is a Czechoslovakia/Poland situation. You're not usually trying to win the war, instead you're just trying to hold out and survive. Giving the Finns a couple focus tree options dedicated to building up forts along the Soviet border would be welcome, or at the very least around Helenski. Bolstering the army would be nice, and if the Soviets do stomp you, that's where the idea for a government in exile mechanic comes in, you move to Britain, Germany, or maybe even Sweden, and keep up the fight, maybe training a few divisions and being equipped by the host country to make a naval invasion to reclaim your territory.

 

[JerkyJerry]

For part of the next expansion I would like to see
Mega & Secret Weapons:
Rail Guns
Me 264
Horten Ho 229
A9 Amerikarakete
I-400 Aircraft Carrier Submarine
V3 London Gun
Horten H.XVIII Amerikabomber
Earthquake Bomb
As well as many others

In addition I would like the ability to have a sort of 'garage' if you will where I could construct my own variations and ideas into production models.

I also agree with other that I hope this is the last expansion and work begins on 5 ASAP.

 

[Enriador]

Then with an overhaul of Ideologies.....I'd still prefer a damn Monarchist Ideology instead of a generic "Non-Aligned".

While I would welcome an ideology overhaul, this Non-Aligned => Monarchism nonsense is borderline madness. For a start, monarchism was not an ideology on itself and (could have) walked hand in hand with both democracy and fascism. More importantly, the "monarchism" label shuts out several forms of government that are non-monarchical yet completely different from democracy/communism/fascism.

A superior term would be "Reactionary", the tried and true Victoria 2 term that not only encompasses conservative monarchism (e.g. Yemen) but also despotic regimes that couldn't reasonably fit any other ideology (e.g. German Empire).

 

[sreckom92]

I am perhaps repeating what others have said, but still:
-Soviet Union
-espionage
-communism rework (revolutions)
-focuses for minors (Finland, Poland?, Bulgaria?)

 

[PK_AZ]

I bet my toasters on Soviet DLC, with rework of land warfare.
My dream is having battleplans reworked so instead of setting startiing positions at borders we will draw long battlelines of massed infantry, and then draw second line to show where divisions are supposed to stand where order is executed - something between current offensive and retreat lines. Divisions should prioritize battleline cohension over getting to their objectives, at least as default setting. Current system becomes just too clumsy the moment your allies start their small-scale offensive, or when your first division reach its objective.

But MTG has also showed they aren't afraid to add focus trees in somewhat disconnected parts of the world at the same time

Two MTG nations are Great Britain (strongest navy before WW2) and USA (strongest navy after WW2). Hardly disconnected.

then they need to find a theme that links together Italy and Poland (the last major trees that would need reworking

I don't think Poland should be considered major nation.
And seriously, whats with that 'Rework USSR. And Poland' approach? Part of our national identity is not liking being put in one bag with Russia. Honestly, mechanically wise, I would rather see Poland as part of French DLC. We were both occupied by Nazi Germany, we both were shooting Gestapo from time to time, we both have two governments belonging to different factions at some point, we both tried to get back our capital by uprising...

Now I wait for the droves of White Knights that I've never seen post here before swarm into this forum.....

Sorry, I have day-off today.

 

[UBERWASP]

Maybe they're changing their approach with MTG, this DLC is Naval focused and maybe the next will be Land or Air focused.

 

[Reinner]

While I would welcome an ideology overhaul, this Non-Aligned => Monarchism nonsense is borderline madness. For a start, monarchism was not an ideology on itself and (could have) walked hand in hand with both democracy and fascism. More importantly, the "monarchism" label shuts out several forms of government that are non-monarchical yet completely different from democracy/communism/fascism.

A superior term would be "Reactionary", the tried and true Victoria 2 term that not only encompasses conservative monarchism (e.g. Yemen) but also despotic regimes that couldn't reasonably fit any other ideology (e.g. German Empire).

Whatever it is, anything is more welcoming than being put into "Non-Aligned" movement because at the moment it's stupid and it makes no sense. The ideology itself is half assed since it has no benefits like other ideologies do and we weren't even allowed to puppet other nations until they added it.

It's not only because we can now form monarchies and empires like AH or German Empire, but because majority of Eastern Europe during interwar era were still monarchies… Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania, Greece… not to mention with MtG both Netherlands and UK will have additional paths where they can become monarchies.

 

[CrazyZombie]

What I'd like to see in new DLC (of further development of game in general) is rework of research system, to take a step away from slots. I don't like how currently if you don't look at some sphere, it stagnates. Maybe, some research teams, working in some certain sphere, could work better, especially if we could change efficiency of that teams by picking diifferent members and heads of teams through PP (or anything else - why not EXP in case of military research). That would mean that you still have to pick your priorities, but anyway, while you are focused on your tanks and land doctrines, assigned team does something in the sphere of navy (or vise versa).

 

[James Hale]

If anyone wants to test a Bulgaria focus tree/events, throw me a PM.

 

[Vityviktor]

Partisans need to be properly implemented into the game, so the Soviet themed expansion (feat. Finland because of the Winter War) would make sense.

Although, we're also in a dire need of a proper Spanish Civil war (in all its complexity, no more of the current Franco vs José Diaz nonsense) via specific Focus Trees and events, maybe focused on Interwar mechanics.