What exactly about Kyros empire is Evil?

[Aramintai]

UPD: Let me put it with another angle - who monitored Ashe and Voices until player come?

Who knows, other Fatebinders? Bleden Mark? But some things they ordered me to do during the game was absolutely despicable, if that's ok in Kyros's book then she's most assuredly is evil in my book and I'd rather side with rebels or be on my own.

 

[aono]

Who knows, other Fatebinders?

Where are they? When you came in, nobody came out, valley is locked, so every polite officer (Fatebinder) should be there.
But nobody there.

 

[MateuszS]

OK:
- cold-blood murder and attempt to framing and attempt to corruption - made by woman in Lethian's Crossing
- cold-blood murder and attempt to framing - made by Disfavored officer in Lethian's Crossing
- insane regent who prefers to sacrify whole country than surrender
- various deeds made by Bronze Brotherhood and (especially) Raetomonnon
- enraged villagers that want to kill beastman "because he is surely guilty"
- suspicious merchant near Disfavoured camp

Kyros empire may by tyranny, but Tiers are not better.

 

[Aramintai]

Where are they? When you came in, nobody came out, valley is locked, so every polite officer (Fatebinder) should be there.
But nobody there.

You mean at the Apex? Player character was the only one and was sent there to investigate exactly because Archons weren't playing nice. Perhaps they're not monitored by Fatebinders 24/7, but Tunon still knows when something is awry. Maybe the Court has a network of spies, but who needs them when there's Bleden Mark - a guy who can shadow teleport out of nowhere.

 

[aono]

insane regent who prefers to sacrify whole country than surrender

Not fair.
Regent trying to save his granddaughter (or daughter? I should said honestly I kinda confused). Not to starting about ethics of making amores with prisoner, it's actually obvious - if Regent is killed and Edict don't resolve, a girl will be next, and until he is killed nobody will kill a girl.

Player character was the only one and was sent there to investigate exactly because Archons weren't playing nice.

So Archon's actions are not good in Kyros book, that's it. Also it's about scrutiny. I just wanted to point that position "hey, Kyros/Tunon have a great deal of constant monitoring" is quite wrong. He doesn't.

 

[Aramintai]

OK:
- cold-blood murder and attempt to framing and attempt to corruption - made by woman in Lethian's Crossing
- cold-blood murder and attempt to framing - made by Disfavored officer in Lethian's Crossing
- insane regent who prefers to sacrify whole country than surrender
- various deeds made by Bronze Brotherhood and (especially) Raetomonnon
- enraged villagers that want to kill beastman "because he is surely guilty"
- suspicious merchant near Disfavoured camp

You don't have to side with Bronze Brotherhood and there's no option to side with the regent. As for some random npcs quets - they're not all evil and those who are can be punished. No punishing for major league though, once you're comitted. Unless you want to break an alliance and be on your own.

 

[aono]

No punishing for major league though, once you're comitted. Unless you want to break an alliance and be on your own.

Actually you HAVE an option to kill them all in the end.

 

[Aramintai]

So Archon's actions are not good in Kyros book, that's it. Also it's about scrutiny. I just wanted to point that position "hey, Kyros/Tunon have a great deal of constant monitoring" is quite wrong. He doesn't.

Maybe not 24/7 but she does keep a close eye on them. Take player character, for example. He/she barely started to get out of line and Bleden Mark was already on his\her heels watching, monitoring. It doesn't seem that Kyros/Tunon possesses some kind of scrying device, they must the work the old fashioned way - through someone's eyes and ears.

 

[MateuszS]

Not fair.
Regent trying to save his granddaughter (or daughter? I should said honestly I kinda confused). Not to starting about ethics of making amores with prisoner, it's actually obvious - if Regent is killed and Edict don't resolve, a girl will be next, and until he is killed nobody will kill a girl.

Again, he didn't have to make love with his prisoner (Amelia was Ashe's daughter), so in that way he looks more grim - what kind of father would put his child in danger in that way? Not sure if he knows that relinquising of edict requires elimination whole bloodline, but still.

 

[Aramintai]

Actually you HAVE an option to kill them all in the end.

But not for their morally despicable acts. It's either simple power play or execution for breaking Kyros's laws.

 

[aono]

Take player character, for example. He/she barely started to get out of line and Bleden Mark was already on his\her heels watching, monitoring.

Not fair. Player character commited a magical act nobody have done before.

But not for their morally despicable acts.

I believe you haven't some fixed motivation stated as steel. And I can't actually punish Bronze Brotherhood or said Regent or rebels for despicable acts. What good man will grant a prisoners to Voices of Nerat just to gain weapons and plans?

 

[MateuszS]

You don't have to side with Bronze Brotherhood and there's no option to side with the regent. As for some random npcs quets - they're not all evil and those who are can be punished. No punishing for major league though, once you're comitted. Unless you want to break an alliance and be on your own.

Same with "necessary" and "unnecessary" evil. Using magical WMDs was necessary. World conquest was necessary. Kyros is not all that evil. And if she is, you can stand up against her (or you will be forced to do it anyway).

 

[aono]

Kyros is not all that evil.

...and the very plan rebels had based on this fact.

 

[Aramintai]

I believe you haven't some fixed motivation stated as steel. And I can't actually punish Bronze Brotherhood or said Regent or rebels for despicable acts. What good man will grant a prisoners to Voices of Nerat just to gain weapons and plans?

Actually, you can kill entire Bronze Brotherhood in at least one route and regent gets what he deserved in every single one of them. And you don't have to side with rebels if you don't like them either, push Tarkis off the Spire. Be on your own.

All that nitpicking aside, I'm not sure what you guys are trying to prove here. The original post was about whether Kyros is evil or not. She clearly is, just as many other npcs in the game. Whether all of them are a product of the time they live in or were made that way by Kyros's will is irrelevant. Objectively they are evil.

 

[MateuszS]

Actually, you can kill entire Bronze Brotherhood in at least one route and regent gets what he deserved in every single one of them. And you don't have to side with rebels if you don't like them either, push Tarkis off the Spire. Be on your own.

All that nitpicking aside, I'm not sure what you guys are trying to prove here. The original post was about whether Kyros is evil or not. She clearly is, just as many other npcs in the game. Whether all of them are a product of the time they live in or were made that way by Kyros's will is irrelevant. Objectively they are evil.

Which I do not agree is that Kyros empire is descripted as "evil" in comparison to Tiers. Evil has won? Surely, because probably most NPCs are evil. No matter who prevails, evil has won. Kyros empire isn't worse than any other country, her people are not worse than Tiersmen. Funny thing, but title of the game seems to be not about Kyros empire but general approvement of evil.

 

[aono]

Actually, you can kill entire Bronze Brotherhood in at least one route and regent gets what he deserved in every single one of them.

Actually, you can kill every Archon but Sirin (can't say can you kill her). I mean, that's not a proving for Bronze Brotherhood or regent being more punished.

All that nitpicking aside, I'm not sure what you guys are trying to prove here.

Simple - "what's evil?" Is Kyros "evil" by means of modern postchristian moral? I believe so, but as I know current postchristian moral trying to get rid from such absolutist
evaluations. Is Kyros "evil" by means of world ze lives? Nope, just moderate level - not her moral fault she have better abilities. Is Kyros "evil" by, let's say, antiquity era? Don't believe so - we have Carthage salted for example, and Spartan children killed.
Real question is "would be that world better without Kyros". And it's, well, not so easy to answer.

 

[Aramintai]

Which I do not agree is that Kyros empire is descripted as "evil" in comparison to Tiers. Evil has won? Surely, because probably most NPCs are evil. No matter who prevails, evil has won. Kyros empire isn't worse than any other country, her people are not worse than Tiersmen. Funny thing, but title of the game seems to be not about Kyros empire but general approvement of evil.

Second round I see...
Excuse me, but how condoning such cruelty as making conscripts kill their families in order to stay alive and forcibly join Chorus is not evil? How allowing slaying entire villages of civilians who just stand in the way is not evil? How is it not evil to proclaim Edicts of Execution on your own subjects without discerning who's guilty? I can go on about this at length. Don't try to compare it with other ingame nations - Kyro's rule in itself is evil, there's no doubt about it.

And just wow, with your sophistry you gonna make a saint out of Kyros yet. Good luck sitting under her thumb. Personally, I can't wait for the sequel\DLC where I tear everything she has built apart.

 

[demanvanwezel]

Again, he didn't have to make love with his prisoner (Amelia was Ashe's daughter), so in that way he looks more grim - what kind of father would put his child in danger in that way? Not sure if he knows that relinquising of edict requires elimination whole bloodline, but still.

nitpick: the child is the regent's granddaughter which makes his insistence on protecting her all the more humane and tragic, the regent's son is already dead

 

[MateuszS]

Second round I see...
Excuse me, but how condoning such cruelty as making conscripts kill their families in order to stay alive and forcibly join Chorus is not evil? How allowing slaying entire villages of civilians who just stand in the way is not evil? How is it not evil to proclaim Edicts of Execution on your own subjects without discerning who guilty? I can go on about this at length. Don't try to compare it with other ingame nations - Kyro's rule in itself is evil, there's no doubt about it.

And how do you know that only Kyros empire did such things? Rebel groups either enforce scorched ground policy or invade their own villages.

@ demanvanwezel
However, he could at least negotiate:"I surrender but please, spare my family". Nope, he preferred to show middle finger.

 

[Aramintai]

And how do you know that only Kyros empire did such things? Rebel groups either enforce sorched ground policy or invade their own villages.

Operate with what you're given in the game, not in your head. And again, why do you always compare? This topic is about Kyros. And objectively she is evil.