What eu4 game mechanics says about islam

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mocoman2001

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For me, games like eu4 and stellaris are very story driven. I make a little narrative in my head, as I play the game.

Example of a story I told my self while I was playing a Milan game a long time ago. I went republic, milked it for the monarch points, and went back to a monarchy. The cool thing was the person who became the elected leader was the daughter of the former duke. She then became queen, and conquered all of Italy, and formed Italy.

I told a story in my head of the great queen who united all of Italy, the mother of Italy.

Mechanics in this game tells story.

Now the story I see eu4 telling me about islam, and republics.

In eu4, I am a big fan of republics, matter of fact, I am a big fan or republics period. Some religions benefit greatly from republics, like Hindu, or Norse and getting to switch your bonus every 4 years or so. Some offer more passive bonuses like Protestant's extra republic traditions.

Their is one religion that says we hate the republic, and that's Islam. It activity punishes you for being a republic.

Islams bonus is only good when you go to an extreme, piety, or lack their of. Every leader resets it. Islam rewards monarchy and dictatorships, while actively punishing republics.

This is some thing I have been thinking about for a very long time. This a narrative told throw a mechanic in the game. That Islam does not like republics. A narrative that paradox seems to have consciously included into the game.

Please try to not turn this into a flame war, its just some thing I have been thinking about for years now, and how mechanics in games tell a story, while on the surface having no actual story.
 
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ecrurudesby

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Is this just an observation? Or are you complaining or suggesting something?

I personally don't give two hoots that Islam and Republics don't go well together in EU4. I'm struggling to think of an historical example pre-20th century where they did. Similarly, if Hindu synergises well with Republics that seems entirely coincidental and not worth much thought. Do correct me if I'm wrong on that.
 

mocoman2001

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Just an observation. People can come up with their own conclusions on what it means, or disagree with the observation as being false. Its just an observation I have seen in this game, and a narrative that paradox tells through this mechanic.

The main point is really to highlight how mechanics in video games tell stories and narratives, regardless if we want them to or not.

Maybe paradox believes that to be true, and made the mechanic to hammer in that point, maybe it was unintentional.

Maybe my observations are wrong, and that the mechanics of Islam in the game does not punish you for playing as a republic.
 
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Rusky

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In my view there are a few things that prevented Islamic societies from molding the state to a republic.

1) Islam is about submission to the will of Allah.
2)Muhammad is the one true prophet that delivered the will of Allah
3)Muhammad's life and the examples/teachings he passed down were not really compatible to the life one might live in a republic. Nor did they create a society that would create minds that would want a republic.
4)???
5)Profit

The Idea of Republics got taken up by the West from the Greeks due to Christianity and its focus on individuality and how salvation comes from the individual and his actions, realizing the faults in them and working to improve rather then just the submission to the way things are.
 

bbqftw

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Muslim republics aren't even that bad since piety is not that hard to farm and you can reliably have 1 decision up, and all 3 decisions with 2(?) reelects
 

erneiz_hyde

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When playing Republics other than to RP, you try to keep a leader as long as possible for better MP generation, so there is plenty of time to build up Piety either way.
And as for irl, the first Caliph Abu Bakr, was actually elected by their peers, while Mohammad's own son-in-law Ali (none of Mohammad's sons survived to adulthood) only became Caliph after 2 others (Umar and Uthman) were elected. So Muslim (specifically Sunni) caliphate was closer to an oligarchy than monarchy in its earliest days.
 

qwertzuiop

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One could also argue that Christianity is portrayed by EU4 as a religion that does not go well together with republics because you miss out on PUs and potentially on becoming the emperor. While republics are amazing, Christianity definitely gives you additional benefits for being a monarchy that you don't get with any other religions.
 

Incompetent

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One could also argue that Christianity is portrayed by EU4 as a religion that does not go well together with republics because you miss out on PUs and potentially on becoming the emperor. While republics are amazing, Christianity definitely gives you additional benefits for being a monarchy that you don't get with any other religions.

Also this. Probably the religions where it makes the most sense to go Republican are the ones with patron deities/cults, as being a Republic means you can switch between them more or less at will.

Republics are great until 1610. After that, being a non-Revolutionary elective Republic (or having a Parliament) usually means you permanently suffer a lack of Absolutism compared to everyone else (made even worse if you can't even scrape together the Absolutism necessary to get Court and Country), which is a pretty hard disadvantage to make up for unless you're committed to going tall. Veche Republic is an exception, but I think that's an oversight, and it otherwise has most of the quirks of a Merchant Republic.
 

Incompetent

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There is no synergy between republics and Hinduism. You lose a huge amount of MP if you don't re-elect as often as possible (which should be almost always). You would be crazy to dump a 6/6/6 for a 4/1/1 just to be able to select a new deity.

Hmm good point. I suppose with Strengthen Government, republican rulers can have an average reign longer than kings. Abdication is also a great boon for Hindu/Norse/Fetishist monarchies.
 

Blust

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I guess they want to make the islamic faith as realistic as possible. It's not enjoyable within a republic system, but it has others bonuses : it can go to -100 and give boost, or +100, and still give boost. Orthodox and protestantism gives nothing at 0, but can be manageable with a republic.
 

bbqftw

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There is no synergy between republics and Hinduism. You lose a huge amount of MP if you don't re-elect as often as possible (which should be almost always). You would be crazy to dump a 6/6/6 for a 4/1/1 just to be able to select a new deity.
moreover in what situation are you not picking Shiva always (sp), shakti (MP), or maybe the interest guy (the 0.1% of people doing controlled bankruptcy)?
 

TheMeInTeam

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Republics were mostly patched into suckage anyway. For the time periods they don't (early and revolutionary republic) Islam is as good as usual when using them because you're aiming to re-elect.

I actually got the one faith achievement as a Sunni revolutionary republic. Before absolutism gimped most republics for all nations, it was my preferred government and I never had much trouble keeping high piety as an Islamic nation.

moreover in what situation are you not picking Shiva always (sp), shakti (MP), or maybe the interest guy (the 0.1% of people doing controlled bankruptcy)?

Ganesha's +diprep and improve relations can occasionally be worth an early game slot-in, especially if you have one of those starts where your ruler sucks --> general --> abdicate ASAP if he doesn't die and are just looking to fish alliances. That's < 5% of the timeline though. It's hard to beat -10% core cost, that's one of the primary reasons to go Hindu anyway.
 

Wixelt

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Funnily enough Islam is actually the best religion for a MR in CK2, since it de-activates decadance and gets you much better CBs than standard MRs.
 

Dakka

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islam as it stood as an organization (not the ideals of the religion, it's realities at that time period) really doesn't go well as a republic historically either.
Exactly this. I can’t think of a single republic during the game’s timespan that also had Islam as a guiding hand in government.
 

estile606

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If you re-elect your rulers often, the piety isnt hard to manage. I actually like islam for republics, because you can switch between high and low piety in a more controlled fashion
 

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Can we turn this into a "why does Absolutism have to massively favour only a small subset of governments by design?" thread now, please. I feel like it's almost outrageous that this point doesn't get raised more often.