What engine are you going to use?

[Wizzington]

a

Do you meant to say then, that HOI3 could have been written so that the ai didn't scatter units hither and yon and do game ruining things if they would have had a computer programmer? All I want is a game that works properly and as advertised. There are too many things to list here but I am sure you are all to aware of really bad things that are done by the ai in HOI3. I just want a World War Two simulator that works. And I hope they pay you a lot of money if you get it right.

I've only been at the company since January 2013 so I did not work on HOI3 but yes of course HOI3's AI could have been programmed better. Every game's AI can be programmed better in some way, it's not a function of the engine.

Think of the engine as a car and the AI as the driver. Having the world's most advanced car might help a bad driver avoid some mistakes, but it isn't what determines the driver's skill.

 

[ingwe]

I've only been at the company since January 2013 so I did not work on HOI3 but yes of course HOI3's AI could have been programmed better. Every game's AI can be programmed better in some way, it's not a function of the engine.

Think of the engine as a car and the AI as the driver. Having the world's most advanced car might help a bad driver avoid some mistakes, but it isn't what determines the driver's skill.

Great analogy.

I am looking forward to whatever you have to offer. Thanks for putting up with all of the crap on the forum.

 

[RedHunter]

I've only been at the company since January 2013 so I did not work on HOI3 but yes of course HOI3's AI could have been programmed better. Every game's AI can be programmed better in some way, it's not a function of the engine.

Think of the engine as a car and the AI as the driver. Having the world's most advanced car might help a bad driver avoid some mistakes, but it isn't what determines the driver's skill.

Good example. I am aware that programmers come under a lot of heat for not making the AI exactly like another human player, but I think that the AI's in games are advancing all the time.

It is my hope that you can create an AI that allows alliances to work well together. EU4 does a good job of this, and I hope that Hoi4 can as well.

 

[Secret Master]

I've only been at the company since January 2013 so I did not work on HOI3 but yes of course HOI3's AI could have been programmed better. Every game's AI can be programmed better in some way, it's not a function of the engine.

But the AI uses the same UI as the player, right? So clearly the interface programmers didn't do their job, either.

If it doesn't use the same UI, then ZOMG HAX!!!!1111!

 

[Alex_brunius]

I've only been at the company since January 2013 so I did not work on HOI3 but yes of course HOI3's AI could have been programmed better. Every game's AI can be programmed better in some way, it's not a function of the engine.

Think of the engine as a car and the AI as the driver. Having the world's most advanced car might help a bad driver avoid some mistakes, but it isn't what determines the driver's skill.

My experience with games so far told me that in some manner of speaking it's actually the other way around.

What I mean is that the more advanced the "car" (game engine) the harder it is to "drive" (program good AI for).

A very complex game like HoI3 with 10000+ provinces, millions of millions of possible combinations of choices/set-ups/units/situations makes it almost impossible for any AI to act reasonably to every situation imaginable.

It holds true, other strategy wargames often have an AI that is perceived as more challenging the more simple they are, and thus the smaller space of options that any AI needs to evaluate to find good/optimal solutions.



Possibly I think of "advanced" as a high performance sports car that is very hard to drive, while you think of "advanced" more like a modern Volvo with active city safety, active warning for lane-changing and other similar features that make it a bit easier to drive.

I suspect HoI level complexity will be one of the hardest games imaginable to code a good AI for, Good Luck!

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Since people realise the AI will be extremely hard to program due to sheer complexity of HoI and the many possibilities the AI will have to react to - I see this all as support for the military control feature so humans can have the choice to remove some of the problems caused by the AI's 'stupidity'.

 

[No idea]

They (the publishers and developers) always claim the AI has improved. Usually it's a lie.

I know it is usually not thruth, but the ai has improved quite a lot between eu III and eu IV, so, at least the last time they said it, it was thruth

 

[Secret Master]

I know it is usually not thruth, but the ai has improved quite a lot between eu III and eu IV, so, at least the last time they said it, it was thruth

Some folks also don't remember what EU and EU2 were like, to say nothing of the original CK or EU:Rome. The AI has always gotten better over time, but the games have also gotten more complicated over time, so there is some issues with the AI getting better at older mechanics, but newer mechanics it's not quite as good at.

 

[Guraan]

Just remember that Wiz has just done a bit of the AI redoing when it comes to EU4 (more for every patch) and now for HoI4 he can unleash his whole arsenal from the beginning O;D It is gonna be awesome and the whole team is looking forward to assist him in his task!

 

[Darkrenown]

Unless he Skynets us.

 

[Mannstien]

Unless he Skynets us.

Get to the choppa!


Edit: wrong movie

 

[Dan1109]

How many "upgrades" to the Clausewitz Engine have there been since HOI3? Did Vanilla use the same version as HOI3 TFH? Did it take until EU4 requirements (which I hear is fantastic compared to previous versions), to develop a newer engine?

The problem with using older engines is that most things are still possible with older engines, they are simply just too complex, time consuming, high support costs, etc. not practical from a ROI point of view.

Anways, just wondering if the engine in HOI4 is only a 1st order evolution from HOI3 Vanilla, or its its perhaps even a 2nd or 3rd.

 

[aruon]

can she be the AI Wiz? the whole game's AI? she's self-learning you know. :rofl:

 

[208]

can she be the AI Wiz? the whole game's AI? she's self-learning you know. :rofl:

Well I guess that's one way to (relatively) improve the game AI: Plaster gratuitously sexy pictures across the UI so that the player acts more stupidly. (May require the player to enter their gender preference at the start of the game.) (Brings a new meaning to the term "hard mode".)

 

[aruon]

Well I guess that's one way to (relatively) improve the game AI: Plaster gratuitously sexy pictures across the UI so that the player acts more stupidly. (May require the player to enter their gender preference at the start of the game.) (Brings a new meaning to the term "hard mode".)

:rofl:

 

[Ikarases]

Well I guess that's one way to (relatively) improve the game AI: Plaster gratuitously sexy pictures across the UI so that the player acts more stupidly. (May require the player to enter their gender preference at the start of the game.) (Brings a new meaning to the term "hard mode".)

And I thought HoI should teach you just about history and warfare on the strategic scale

Hopefully, the new AI will have more beauty on the inside than on the outside though

 

[ruckel]

I wonder if Paradox have peeked at the Galactic Civilizations series AI? In the second title the AI was extremely good and adapted very well to most situations. It did not cheat against the player in any way with any modifiers and it could really crush you on the higher levels.

 

[lemonsquid]

Make some AI that writes for itself? Just make sure they dont create a black hole and murder us all

 

[aruon]

Make some AI that writes for itself? Just make sure they dont create a black hole and murder us all

*points to picture of Cortana above*

 

[Axe99]

I know it is usually not thruth, but the ai has improved quite a lot between eu III and eu IV, so, at least the last time they said it, it was thruth

I've been playing HoI since the first, and the AI has continued to improve substantially. The first's AI was a valiant attempt, but imo the third's was the first time the series really got close to a WW2-type experience (the second wasn't bad on land, but struggled with large naval invasions - the third still hasn't got it perfect, but it's much, much, much better - but Japan in HoI1 and 2 really struggled with the AI). Same with the EU and CK series, and Vicky to boot. Paradox's AI has continued to evolve and develop substantially over time. To date, from Paradox, this isn't just hyperbole but reflects what they've actually achieved. That said, I very much hope for more improvements again for HoI4 . While a lot of people get excited about all sorts of features, for me the AI in a strategy game (and most other games that involve computer actors) is the most important element.

QUOTE=ruckel;17687917]I wonder if Paradox have peeked at the Galactic Civilizations series AI? In the second title the AI was extremely good and adapted very well to most situations. It did not cheat against the player in any way with any modifiers and it could really crush you on the higher levels.[/QUOTE]

+1 to this, Gal Civ II's AI is still my high watermark for that kind of thing. It's brilliant . That said, CK2 and EU4's dynasty/diplomatic AI has really come a long way, and is something pretty special these days. Not perfect (perfect AI is very hard to make, or we'd be working in slave factories for the machines by now) but the complexity and quality really makes the games more fun than their forebears .