What does the AI factor in for Primary titles?

[Blodhevn]

So ive done a lot of AI timelapses/overseer gameplay letting AI mostly play by themselves besides securing some marriages etc.

There is so much the ai does badly, but what i dont understand is why or how AI chooses a primary target? i often see AI of multiple kingdoms change from their first kingdom to the kingdom they just conquered while it having less buildings,lower (at least capital) development, less landmass not of their culture while the previous one is etc. what gives?

Does the AI have any logic for choosing their primary title at all? i tried changing it back and even deleting the secondary title. AI will instantly repurchase & make it their primary again.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

In some cases it might be cultural - a Norman king may want to be King of France rather than King of England.

In some cases they might shift to the title they have more land in, in an attempt to preserve a better succession for their heir.

I suspect though it's going to be complicated to trace the actual logic, and I'm not sure it's exposed.

 

[Anonymous01]

Does the AI have any logic for choosing their primary title at all?

Yes it does, but I don't remember what it is. There's a hardcoded hierarchy between titles of equal rank. You can see it if you sort by rank in the Character Search.

We used to discuss this in the CK2 days, and someone in that forum explained it once if I remember correctly, so you might check there.

 

[Blodhevn]

In some cases it might be cultural - a Norman king may want to be King of France rather than King of England.

In some cases they might shift to the title they have more land in, in an attempt to preserve a better succession for their heir.

I suspect though it's going to be complicated to trace the actual logic, and I'm not sure it's exposed.

right, im sure there is some logic to it, but i cant understand what it is. The king had more land in his primary, it was of his culture & the kingdom as a whole is larger & he swapped to the fresh low control kingdom where he'd only have the capital & of wrong faith.

 

[Tilarium]

The AI doesn't always do what we, as Human players, would do and it is certainly frustrating. In my last major play though (I ran a quick game just to get a single achievement, so not counting that one), I started as a count in the Eastern Roman Empire (game calls it Byzantine, whatever, you do you game) and worked my way up to duke then King by forming Naples. After take, I built a few powerful alliances and started a dissolution faction against the Emperor because why not. I pressed my ultimatum pretty quick as I could take him in a war with my allies. We done, Eastern Roman Empire was no more! Then I watched, the former Emperor had taken the other county in Cyprus and formed the Kingdom. Then he died and his daughter, his last surviving child, took the throne. I watcher as she took back about 85% of the former Empire but never reformed it despite having the land and gold to do it (Hell, I gifted her a bunch of gold to do it) and then when she died it was all split between her two sons. One died pretty quick after that, splitting what he had gotten in half again. By this point, I knew it was safe the AI would never reform the Empire and I was a bit sad.

Elsewhere in the world, the King of West Francia had grown so powerful he formed the Empire of Francia. But I thought he was to powerful, so I swore fealty to him and then started a dissolution faction and pressed it right away, making him split his empire up and going from a powerful Emperor to a lowly Count because all he had was the Empire and 3 random counties spread around.

 

[Riaman98]

it depends on culture it is hard coded in may be title files, do not exact place, but if you are of that culture you would go for that capital.

 

[pengoyo]

Here's some example from the code (the ai_primary_priority sections below), though there very well might be a tie breaker that @Anonymous01 mentions that does not show up explicitly here, potentially tied to the order of the titles in the file.

Spoiler: Britannia and England

e_britannia = {
    color = { 172 22 22 }

    capital = c_middlesex

    cultural_names = {
        name_list_pictish = cn_pictavia
        name_list_irish = cn_alba
        name_list_gaelic = cn_alba
    }

    ai_primary_priority = {
        if = {
            limit = {
                OR = {
                    culture = { has_cultural_pillar = heritage_west_germanic }
                    culture = { has_cultural_pillar = heritage_goidelic }
                    culture = { has_cultural_pillar = heritage_brythonic }
                }
            }
            add = @correct_culture_primary_score
        }
    }

    k_england = {
        color = { 202 26 26 }

        capital = c_middlesex

        ai_primary_priority = {
            if = {
                limit = {
                    OR = {
                        culture = culture:english
                        culture = culture:anglo_saxon
                    }
                }
                add = @correct_culture_primary_score
            }
        }

Spoiler: Francia and France

e_france = {
    color = { 11 22 170 }

    capital = c_ile_de_france

    ai_primary_priority = {
        if = {
            limit = {
                culture = culture:french
            }
            add = @correct_culture_primary_score
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                OR = {
                    culture = culture:norman
                    culture = culture:occitan
                }
            }
            add = @better_than_the_alternatives_score
        }
    }

    k_france = {
        color = { 15 27 187 }

        capital = c_ile_de_france

        ai_primary_priority = {
            if = {
                limit = {
                    culture = culture:french
                }
                add = @correct_culture_primary_score
            }
            if = {
                limit = {
                    OR = {
                        culture = culture:norman
                        culture = culture:occitan
                    }
                }
                add = @better_than_the_alternatives_score
            }
        }

Looking at them, one problem might be that a lot of them reference only cultures, thus hybrid and divergent cultures will instead use any tie breaker mechanic that was mentioned previously. The devs could maybe add descendant culture (or alternatively cultural heritages) to the better_than_the_alternatives_score section for those that currently only reference culture.

edit: this code is from the 00_landed_titles.txt if you want to check any specific title

 

[Tuo]

Looking at them, one problem might be that a lot of them reference only cultures, thus hybrid and divergent cultures will instead use any tie breaker mechanic that was mentioned previously. The devs could maybe add descendant culture (or alternatively cultural heritages) to the better_than_the_alternatives_score section for those that currently only reference culture.

Should a French descendant culture diverged in Germany prefer the title of King of France over King of Germany? Which one should a hybrid of French and German culture go for? Which is more important, the origin of the culture or the point of divergence?

 

[Wokeg]

You know, I'm honestly uncertain what they do past the priority overrides in 00_landed_titles. I'll ask Code and see if we've got an explanation we can parse out.

 

[Wokeg]

According to Code, the tie-break order goes:

1. HoF titles top of the pile if possible.
2. Titular titles max deprio'd unless they've got a special parameter (this is just included for mods).
3. Everything else is just order received.

... so explanations for them switching around to really poor titles sound like either weird behaviour emerging from the priority overrides (e.g., they inherit a priority that isn't immediately obvious from their cultural heritage) or weird bugged behaviour. There might be some specific stuff they missed, t'was just a speedy check, but it's not a super intricate system atm.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Yes it does, but I don't remember what it is. There's a hardcoded hierarchy between titles of equal rank. You can see it if you sort by rank in the Character Search.

We used to discuss this in the CK2 days, and someone in that forum explained it once if I remember correctly, so you might check there.

Wasn't it just the title with the most de-jure counties in CK2?

 

[pengoyo]

Should a French descendant culture diverged in Germany prefer the title of King of France over King of Germany? Which one should a hybrid of French and German culture go for? Which is more important, the origin of the culture or the point of divergence?

The game doesn't keep track where a divergence or hybrid happen. So all it has to work with for divergent or hybrid culture is what cultural pillar it kept and whether it is a descendant culture or not.

But an example of the problem is for instance Armenia, it has only a check for Armenian culture, but neighbouring kingdoms of Anatolia and Pontus check for Greek culture and Byzantine heritage. So any ruler of Armenia that is of a culture diverged from Armenian will, when they conquer Pontus or Anatolia, switch primary kingdoms.

Additionally there are some like the Kingdom of Sardinia and Romagna that seem to be missing a culture check of any kind.

So I don't know the best solution to the problem, but whatever the solution is it should be standardized across titles.

My suggestion would be:
For empires just add the relevant cultural heritages (as listing all the relevant cultures would be too much work for little gain).
For kingdoms I suggest this format would be culture is used first, then cultural pillar, finally descendants as a tie breaker:

        ai_primary_priority = {
            if = {
                limit = {
                    culture = culture:armenian
                }
                add = @correct_culture_primary_score
            }
            else = {
                if = {
                    limit = {
                        culture = { has_cultural_pillar = heritage_byzantine }
                    }
                    add = @better_than_the_alternatives_score
                }
                if = {
                    limit = {
                        any_parent_culture_or_above = {
                            culture = culture:armenian
                        }
                    }
                    add = @tie_breaker_primary_score
                }
            }
        }

I went with descendant being a tie breaker as it already can get very messy with the cultures that exist on game start. So in my setup it would only be used if the AI is picking between two titles that either both have the relevant cultural heritage or neither has the relevant cultural heritage. But for example, this way a culture diverged from French will pick the Kingdom of France over Aquitaine (with Aquitaine being preferred by cultures diverged from Occitan).

The other option would be for cultural heritages and descendant cultures not to be used at all on the kingdom level. And just have diverged or hybrid culture rely on the order in which they get the titles for determining their primary title.



Side note, but I noticed the Kingdom of Romagna can only be created by the AI if they are Christians. I feel like this is a hold over from CK2 that probably should be removed.

 

[Drakken]

I'd favour the idea that some primary titles are inherently more prestigious than others, even if they are of the same vassal tiers, which should heavily dictate which title would be primary,

If you have to choose between being King of France or King of Navarra first, guess which one is the more prestigious of the two.

 

[Darumaka]

I'd favour the idea that some primary titles are inherently more prestigious than others, even if they are of the same vassal tiers, which should heavily dictate which title would be primary,

If you have to choose between being King of France or King of Navarra first, guess which one is the more prestigious of the two.

Then this "prestige" should be represented by the amount of de jure lands within it, as suggested by a poster above, or by amount of development within it or its capital. If I play Navarra and de jure drift all of Aquitaine and Castille into it then it's "prestige" should increase and perhaps be selected as primary rather than France. Two-duchy Navarra though, it can stay as secondary. Basically I'm suggesting this prestige shouldn't be hardcoded but fluctuate accordingly, especially when comparing Kingdoms of similar size like say Castille and Leon, or Aquitaine and Burgundy.

 

[gamerk2]

Then this "prestige" should be represented by the amount of de jure lands within it, as suggested by a poster above, or by amount of development within it or its capital. If I play Navarra and de jure drift all of Aquitaine and Castille into it then it's "prestige" should increase and perhaps be selected as primary rather than France. Two-duchy Navarra though, it can stay as secondary. Basically I'm suggesting this prestige shouldn't be hardcoded but fluctuate accordingly, especially when comparing Kingdoms of similar size like say Castille and Leon, or Aquitaine and Burgundy.

Agreed.

De Jure land is a good starting point for factoring prestige, but I also feel other factors like how long the Kingdom has existed, and overall stability of the lands within, could also be considered. Its something that could definitely use a good looking at in the future.

It should also be noted that any Kingdom formed via a decision should get a MASSIVE priority boost for the AI to form and switch too; I'd love to see the AI actually form the HRE when it fills the requirements.

 

[Darumaka]

Agreed.

De Jure land is a good starting point for factoring prestige, but I also feel other factors like how long the Kingdom has existed, and overall stability of the lands within, could also be considered. Its something that could definitely use a good looking at in the future.

It should also be noted that any Kingdom formed via a decision should get a MASSIVE priority boost for the AI to form and switch too; I'd love to see the AI actually form the HRE when it fills the requirements.

I don't think this is a thing, but they could also add a +opinion modifier to any vassals within their de jure primary title, basically simulating how a monarch would prioritize one kingdom over another in order to appease their subjects. Maybe a +opinion to the primary title's vassals and a -opinion to the secondary ones, this way kingdoms may be more likely to collapse if these secondary titles' vassals become more rebellious.

The biggest historical example of this may be the HRE maybe, where over time it lost Italy simply due to it being unable to prioritize their needs and assert their control there. In game terms, Emperor prioritized the de jure HRE vassals and neglected the vassals within de jure Italy.