What does it exactly mean?(Wiz's twitter)

[doktorstick]

The fix is probably something like:

IF achievement condition has been satisfied
  AND bonuses are normal or AI
  AND difficulty is normal or hard
  AND lucky nations is historical
THEN
  award achievement

 

[Wizzington]

The fix is probably something like:

IF achievement condition has been satisfied
  AND bonuses are normal or AI
  AND difficulty is normal or hard
  AND lucky nations is historical
THEN
  award achievement

Ayep.

 

[Sangwiny]

Oh There goes me playing ironman with those fucking "lucky nations" modifier turned off.

 

[Aythne]

Ayep.

If I'm understanding the exploit correctly (entirely taken from one of the first posts in this thread, so it might in itself be wrong) they are changing the state of the game post-creation to add bonuses to the player in order to make the achievement easier?

Wouldn't a check like this only require them to change the state of the game once again to remove those bonuses and then qualify for the achievement?

Obviously I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt that the check is a little more complex than what was dreamt up by doktorstick, but it was the first thought that came to mind.

 

[Wizzington]

Shouldn't work.

 

[Cymsdale]

Oh There goes me playing ironman with those fucking "lucky nations" modifier turned off.

Playing ironman was always possible this way. Turn off the actual mode and simply don't savescum. Gets rid of a lot of auto-save nonsense too, game runs much smoother. And if someone tells you it's not "really" ironman you tell them where they can stick it.

 

[wingzero890]

If only there was some kind of... program. That managed achievements on steam, or something.

That would make how seriously people take ironman achievements seem silly, wouldn't it?

Inb4 paradox makes all their games use VAC or Punkbuster, lol. Single player games are super serious!!!1

 

[Maldazar]

Playing ironman was always possible this way. Turn off the actual mode and simply don't savescum. Gets rid of a lot of auto-save nonsense too, game runs much smoother. And if someone tells you it's not "really" ironman you tell them where they can stick it.

Well, it is NOT really ironman because real ironman includes lucky nations, don't see it as 'unfair bonus' but see it as part of the challenge... You have the ability to actualy THINK and not just follow pre-programmed chains of logic.. that should then be considered an 'unfair bonus' as well and be removed as well... Simple: No strategy game would work without AI cheating.. because no AI can think/plan/rationalize as well as humans... they in the end just follow some pre-programmed logic and stick to it, being easy to trick, etc.

 

[Kalderus]

I still see no mention of if this is being applied to previous versions of the game or not.

 

[grisamentum]

IF achievement condition has been satisfied
  AND bonuses are normal or AI
  AND difficulty is normal or hard
  AND lucky nations is historical
THEN
  award achievement

Ayep.

Will "lucky nations" ever be re-examined? It seems like a relic of old that was designed to promote historical outcomes. But now we have so many different ways to balance countries than before (better starting leader/heir/generals, better development, better national ideas and traditions, more complex events) that there isn't really a need to have explicitly "lucky" nations any longer in order to promote historical outcomes.

 

[deckhand]

I still see no mention of if this is being applied to previous versions of the game or not.

I'm speculating:
Achievements are somewhat outside of the game as they require interaction with STEAM account outside of the game. How I think it works is that game tells STEAM that achievement has been satisfied. Then STEAM checks if it was already achieved and if not then provides game notification and updates player account.
So, this change would be on the STEAM side and prevent the exploit on ALL versions.

 

[Grimely]

I particularly mention it, since I've been using these exploits in a Three Mountains Game. It's still extremely tedious, frustrating, and time-dependent, but at least it may be doable this way. Without player bonuses +easy mode +no-lucky-nations, I have no idea how you'd be able to do a Ryukyu WC on 1.11 (on earlier versions, you can spam RMs and get a bunch of personal unions, which a noteworthy forum member did in a 1.9 game, and I think I recall him also doing a one-tag Ryukyu in an early version as well). However with vassal liberty desire in 1.11, and with vassals being almost totally incompetent at harsh treating or fighting rebels (the rebels scale to the overlord not the vassal), you need to core large amounts yourself.

The Ryukyu one tag was accomplished in 1.9.2.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

So you're saying that when I called attention to a pretty simple exploit it got fixed within a week. Sounds like I did a good job.

Did you see me making any YouTube videos about it? No, not one. Showing people how to do it wasn't the goal. Helping to make the game incrementally better has always been my goal.

Sometimes you have to cast a bright light on small problems or they never get noticed, and granted this is a relatively niche case exploit, it still shouldn't be in the game. I'm glad it was fixed, and Wiz's solution is simple and direct. I'm sure he would have fixed it eventually either way, but having a few thousand people see it happening live might help speed it up.

And yes, you can earn achievements in 1.12 and the 1.13 beta right now while using this exploit, I proved it twice during that stream.

Thanks, Arumba!

 

[Kalderus]

I'm speculating:
Achievements are somewhat outside of the game as they require interaction with STEAM account outside of the game. How I think it works is that game tells STEAM that achievement has been satisfied. Then STEAM checks if it was already achieved and if not then provides game notification and updates player account.
So, this change would be on the STEAM side and prevent the exploit on ALL versions.

I don't think they can do this somehow- they'd have to get someone at Valve to make that sort of change. The most they can do is provide updated game files through patches, but if you revert patches, you undo those changes. Unless I'm mistaken, short of making ALL previous patches non-ironman, there's not much they could do about preventing achievements with these exploits in previous versions.

 

[FleetingRain]

Welp, guess I'm going to run against the clock in my Ryukyu game now.

Don't you want to wait until the whole team returns from vacation, Wiz? Pretty please.

 

[Kljunas]

I'm speculating:
Achievements are somewhat outside of the game as they require interaction with STEAM account outside of the game. How I think it works is that game tells STEAM that achievement has been satisfied. Then STEAM checks if it was already achieved and if not then provides game notification and updates player account.
So, this change would be on the STEAM side and prevent the exploit on ALL versions.

No, this change just means that instead of only checking that ironman mode is enabled the game also double checks that player bonuses are disabled.

 

[Thrake]

Well, it's there since pretty much the start of the game. I used it to turn AI bonuses on to get some fun with not too hard achievements. Good to see it will still work this way

 

[Philarete]

Will this affect games played on the 1.12 patch? Or will the achievement change only apply to 1.13 and beyond?

 

[Kalderus]

Will this affect games played on the 1.12 patch? Or will the achievement change only apply to 1.13 and beyond?

As I've been saying above, I'm fairly certain these changes won't be able to affect previous versions of the game, so unless they go and disable ironman for all previous patches, we're probably safe. Granted, Wiz might correct me on this.

 

[Philarete]

As I've been saying above, I'm fairly certain these changes won't be able to affect previous versions of the game, so unless they go and disable ironman for all previous patches, we're probably safe. Granted, Wiz might correct me on this.

I agree with you that it would make sense to leave it for previous patches. Just would like verification.