What does it exactly mean?(Wiz's twitter)

[happymix91]

Martin Anward
I heard you made 20 ironman saves with player bonuses. I hope you'll have time to finish all 20 in the next couple of days.



Arumba
Did you fix that exploit?



Martin Anward
I made it so the ironman disallowed settings lock you out of achievements, so exploit becomes pointless.


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So he will block player bonus at ironman? I can't understand exact meaning of his twit.

If we apply player bonus at next patch, then will we be unable to play ironman or be able to play ironman but unable to do achievement?

If we can play achievement-unabled ironman with player bonus, then will we be able to play achievement-unabled ironman with user-created mod? Though Johan said that it will be allowed at next expansion 'MAYBE'.

 

[Beagá]

Which player bonuses are those?

 

[Incompetent]

@Beaga: the exploit AFAICT is that after starting an Ironman game, you can fiddle with the settings in a way that would not be allowed when *starting* the game, but then your game continues to be Ironman. 'Player bonuses' is a handicap mode, giving the player a bunch of beneficial numerical modifiers (increased manpower, reduced unrest and so on) that normal AI countries don't receive. Think of very easy difficulty settings in Civ games. 'AI bonuses' is the reverse, giving the AI a bunch of bonuses but not the player.

As for Wiz's tweet, I think it means:

If your settings would ordinarily disallow Ironman status (however you achieved those settings), then your game won't be eligible for achievements.

The way I think of it is that 'achievement grade' is the gold standard, the strictest rules you can play by. Below that is 'Ironman grade', which lets you play an Ironman game (e.g. custom nations are allowed at Ironman level, but not achievement level). Then there are non-Ironman games, where anything goes.

 

[tobias.mb]

There is an exploit where you can play with playerbonus and easy AI in ironman mode and get achievements.

 

[happymix91]

Yeah custom nation blocks achievement.. So I think that achievement-unabled ironman will be applied to player bonus like custom nation, but I hope achievement-unabled ironman for mod too.

 

[Apollyonna]

More interesting is to know if Arumba really has those saves and is going to be completely up-front about it...

I would be willing to bet that this run used the "Player bonuses in ironman" exploit. I find it hard to believe it would be possible otherwise. And considering the Ryukyu series he did used that exploit, it is pretty likely that this run did as well.

Nothing against using exploits, I just think its a bit disingenuous to put up a 'record run' and not mention it.

 

[Gringovoir]

More interesting is to know if Arumba really has those saves and is going to be completely up-front about it...

He streamed it on twitch and showed how to do this exploit.

 

[Mattimeo78]

Exploits. They only serve to further the belief that Steam achievements are worthless, and as someone who games perhaps a tad too much, I like showing mine off.

 

[Krajzen]

Wiz's avatar is the one and only appropriate avatar for the man responsible for Jan Mayen

 

[Kalderus]

As long as we keep our game un-updated on a previous version, I can't see how Wiz can stop it.

 

[DmUa]

More interesting is to know if Arumba really has those saves and is going to be completely up-front about it...

- DDRJake used this exploit only in his fast Sons of Carthage playthrough, and it did not provided any achievments to him. Arumba just being jelly like he always do.

 

[Orosius]

I think it's pretty clear. When you're about to get an achievement, the system will check if you CAN have an achievement (No player bonus, Normal difficulty atleast, lucky nations, no custom nations)

 

[Knut Skallagrim]

As long as we keep our game un-updated on a previous version, I can't see how Wiz can stop it.

Disabling achievements for that version?

 

[maitrecarotte]

Disabling achievements for that version?

Really doubt that. They never fix older versions of the game and wouldn't do it this time.

You can still get Shahshanah on day0 in 1.9.x and they won't fix exploits like they don't fix bugs in older versions.

If anything, I'm glad this is getting fixed. I honestly can't believe people were praising Marco for his "record".

 

[Arumba]

More interesting is to know if Arumba really has those saves and is going to be completely up-front about it...

He streamed it on twitch and showed how to do this exploit.

So you're saying that when I called attention to a pretty simple exploit it got fixed within a week. Sounds like I did a good job.

Did you see me making any YouTube videos about it? No, not one. Showing people how to do it wasn't the goal. Helping to make the game incrementally better has always been my goal.

Sometimes you have to cast a bright light on small problems or they never get noticed, and granted this is a relatively niche case exploit, it still shouldn't be in the game. I'm glad it was fixed, and Wiz's solution is simple and direct. I'm sure he would have fixed it eventually either way, but having a few thousand people see it happening live might help speed it up.

And yes, you can earn achievements in 1.12 and the 1.13 beta right now while using this exploit, I proved it twice during that stream.

 

[Knut Skallagrim]

Really doubt that. They never fix older versions of the game and wouldn't do it this time.

You can still get Shahshanah on day0 in 1.9.x and they won't fix exploits like they don't fix bugs in older versions.

If anything, I'm glad this is getting fixed. I honestly can't believe people were praising Marco for his "record".

I didn't know that older versions still unlock achievements, so sorry for that, i thought that only the last and the penultimate versions had achievements enabled. Anyways ofc i agree.

 

[maitrecarotte]

I didn't know that older versions still unlock achievements, so sorry for that, i thought that only the last and the penultimate versions had achievements enabled. Anyways ofc i agree.

Small detail, you can only unlock achievements that have been present or introduced with the patch you are reverting to.

 

[Tweakee]

Really doubt that. They never fix older versions of the game and wouldn't do it this time.

You can still get Shahshanah on day0 in 1.9.x and they won't fix exploits like they don't fix bugs in older versions.

If anything, I'm glad this is getting fixed. I honestly can't believe people were praising Marco for his "record".

In fairness, he's really good at playing the game on Easy difficulty.

 

[Apollyonna]

So you're saying that when I called attention to a pretty simple exploit it got fixed within a week. Sounds like I did a good job.

Did you see me making any YouTube videos about it? No, not one. Showing people how to do it wasn't the goal. Helping to make the game incrementally better has always been my goal.

Sometimes you have to cast a bright light on small problems or they never get noticed, and granted this is a relatively niche case exploit, it still shouldn't be in the game. I'm glad it was fixed, and Wiz's solution is simple and direct. I'm sure he would have fixed it eventually either way, but having a few thousand people see it happening live might help speed it up.

And yes, you can earn achievements in 1.12 and the 1.13 beta right now while using this exploit, I proved it twice during that stream.

No I didn't see the video. I made a wrong assumption and I apologise for it.

 

[Kalderus]

Really doubt that. They never fix older versions of the game and wouldn't do it this time.

You can still get Shahshanah on day0 in 1.9.x and they won't fix exploits like they don't fix bugs in older versions.

If anything, I'm glad this is getting fixed. I honestly can't believe people were praising Marco for his "record".

I didn't know that older versions still unlock achievements, so sorry for that, i thought that only the last and the penultimate versions had achievements enabled. Anyways ofc i agree.

I particularly mention it, since I've been using these exploits in a Three Mountains Game. It's still extremely tedious, frustrating, and time-dependent, but at least it may be doable this way. Without player bonuses +easy mode +no-lucky-nations, I have no idea how you'd be able to do a Ryukyu WC on 1.11 (on earlier versions, you can spam RMs and get a bunch of personal unions, which a noteworthy forum member did in a 1.9 game, and I think I recall him also doing a one-tag Ryukyu in an early version as well). However with vassal liberty desire in 1.11, and with vassals being almost totally incompetent at harsh treating or fighting rebels (the rebels scale to the overlord not the vassal), you need to core large amounts yourself.