What does Camouflage Expert do?

[HugsAndSnuggles]

And besides the germans I'm not aware of anyone using AA guns against tanks widely

Soviets did. Not to the point of "we can't penetrate those panzers with anything else" germans had with KVs and T34s at the start of war, but AT shell of 85mm AA could penetrate anything 'till mid-'43; from a respectable range, too.

I'm not sure why the soviets built so many 45mm AT guns, I think it is well know they couldn't penetrate the better armoured tanks like Tiger, T-34 and Panther. Maybe they could penetrate Panzer 4's?

Penetration is a factor of range: if you had to get those tanks at 100m before firing, you did. While obsolete by the start of war (it was ~5 year old by then, after all), its (relatively) small size and good mobility allowed for such uses, especially by guerilla units. Not to mention that any artillery piece is more versatile than simple anti-tank.

Also, note that you don't necessarily have to penetrate front armour of a tank: it can be turned to the side using its own momentum - just gotta disable its track while the tank is moving. Simply stopping its advance is also enough - part of the reason why AT rifles were a thing for so long (despite having same penetration ability at 100m as 37mm AA guns had at 1km) and why panzers got those additional armour plates protecting their transmission and such.

 

[seattle]

I've seen it used in MP with good results.

It may be niche, but I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Especially considering the potency of AA guns in HOI4. If you can lower bombing damage and have no planes of your own, but you have plenty of AA to shoot down enemy planes, then you can effectively increase the planes lost to ground damage inflicted ratio.

I pick it either in "no airforce" games as Soviets for instance and then on everyone I can get.
Or in regular games, but then only on marines. It's not always feasible to get air superiority in landing zones.

 

[Secret Master]

Or in regular games, but then only on marines. It's not always feasible to get air superiority in landing zones.

I've thought of doing that, but I never seem to be able to farm Commando and still have enough trait slots left to spend on that trait. Then again, I'm probably the worst player at farming generals.

 

[seattle]

I've thought of doing that, but I never seem to be able to farm Commando and still have enough trait slots left to spend on that trait. Then again, I'm probably the worst player at farming generals.

Doesn't Germany start with one? Don't remember vanilla's generals. I'm thinking Dietl or Schörner.

 

[MR2]

Doesn't Germany start with one? Don't remember vanilla's generals. I'm thinking Dietl or Schörner.

Student.

 

[Secret Master]

Doesn't Germany start with one? Don't remember vanilla's generals. I'm thinking Dietl or Schörner.

Student.

And he's usually busy being a paratrooper leader and not leading amphibious invasions.

True story:

In an MP game long ago, Manstein picked up the Invader trait from 9 different failed amphibious invasions of Malta, including one amphibious invasion that lasted so long that the first divisions that hit the beach (and then retreated with lost ORG) went home, re-ORGed, got attached to the invasion plan again, and went back to the beach head.

That invasion took around two months, and finally a later one was successful. His men started calling him "the Butcher" after that.

 

[Harin]

There must be a reason why everyone was building tons of AT guns in ww2..... Even more then artillery and AA.

One reason a military may deploy more anti-tank weapons than anti-air, is due to realistic effective ranges. A well deployed anti-air battery can cover a huge upper battle space as the air has few line of sight issues. A well deployed anti-tank unit is typically hidden, low to the ground, and even minor variations in terrain height cuts off line of sight.

For example, one or two AA guns might be able to cover the entire air space over a small town, but it most likely will take many more AT systems, small and large, to cover all the approaches at ground level and stay hidden.

 

[blahmaster6k]

I've seen it used in MP with good results.

It may be niche, but I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Especially considering the potency of AA guns in HOI4. If you can lower bombing damage and have no planes of your own, but you have plenty of AA to shoot down enemy planes, then you can effectively increase the planes lost to ground damage inflicted ratio.

To add to this, many servers ban strategic bombing entirely, which makes no air builds more viable than they otherwise would be, even in the absence of static AA.

 

[Secret Master]

To add to this, many servers ban strategic bombing entirely, which makes no air builds more viable than they otherwise would be, even in the absence of static AA.

We don't ban it, but I fully agree. If you do ban it, then no-air builds have an added attraction.