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Of course there were attempts to compensate for a limited number of 'ethnic', e.g. Greek / Macedonian, phalangites in the eastern Kingdoms, with the Seleucid Empire raising Iranian units of Phalangites and the Ptolemies raising Egyptian units, the latter generally considered 'poor quality'. This could be handled as a national decision option, similar to in EU IV ?

Horse archers, present in PI's Rome, were only really available to the Seleucids and in relatively small numbers. Specialist light cavalry armed with javelins were present in, or available to a wider range of states; numidian, Iberian, 'tarentine' (a description for Hellenistic light cavalry, whether from Greek southern Italy or further east).

Archers, present in PI's Rome, were available in limited numbers and primarily were 'psiloi' or light skirmish troops, numbered in most armies in hundreds rather than even 1,000. Most were described as 'Cretan', which again may be a generic term for Greek archers, or a style of bow or costume rather than strictly denoting Cretan ethnicity. Others were Iranian, or Numidian, though North African bow armed skirmishers only seem to appear after the Punic Wars. There were some, I think Carian (?) archers that probably operated in closer formation in slightly earlier Persian armies (during Alexander's conquest). Slingers appear in similarly small numbers in Greek and Iberian armies. Where Iranian skirmish archers are present they are usually in combination with a similar number of slingers, suggesting mixed units.

Because of the above I suggest that the 1,000 unit size used generically in Rome (and EU) is unhelpful. I accept this could be a reflection simply of relative strength rather than strict number. Perhaps a percentage rating rather than 1,000 as used for ships, e.g. unit now at 75% ? Or a scale of unit size reflecting role, e.g. units of 500 psiloi or cavalry, 1,000 infantry, 1,500 phalangites ?

The Romans seem to have been discerning about what troops they raised as auxilia / mercenaries from other peoples; irregular cavalry from allied Gallic tribes, slingers from the Balearic islands, Numidian or Cretan light archer skirmishers, Numidian light cavalry. Though during the second Punic war they welcomed Iberian and Numidian allies and presumably the forces those allies contributed were what those allies had available. In other words there is a distinction between raising a unit of auxilia / mercenaries (Cretan, Numidian, Thracian, Galatian) which might be of specialist type, and levying the support of an allied 'tribe' or minor state, which would contribute troops proportionate to its own typical army composition, e.g. Iberian tribes typically fielded a combination of 'peltast-like' long shield infantry (scutarii), 'psilioi-like' javelin armed skirmish infantry, possibly some slingers and some cavalry (in a larger force possibly split into light javelin armed skirmish cavalry and 'melee' cavalry).

Is this helpful ?
 
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Egypt should be different from the other eastern monarchies.. The start may be from the palace or from the temple. Gender is no hindrance as a princess may easily aspire to the throne. So you can have P or P start. Prince (ss) or priest (ess). They follow two paths because a priest may not aspire to the throne. Yet, a priest may become the most powerful person in Egypt. You may commission the building of temples for the gods you serve everywhere. Spread the cult of that god. The more followers you get the more piety. The more piety, the more influence. So if your prestige as a priest becomes higher than that of the king or queen, it becomes possible for you to enforce your will on them. A king and Queen may declare war on another nation with your blessing. They may be obliged to abandon a project because the gods are against it. You appoint candidates to government posts in the temple. They may grow in power. Some will remain loyal. Some will stub you in the back. The king or Queen may conspire against your rising power or your life. The palace start seems easier. The Egyptian succession system has a male and a female share the throne. Who will be more powerful? Filling government positions with your people, earning the respect of the populace and their love, the favor of the gods (or their servants) determine everything. The Greeco-Egyptian government system is composed of a number of ministers. I would suggest five government positions:
Grand vizir
Chief treasurer (like a steward)
Chief Eunuch (like a spymaster yet also responsible for the household)
Commander in Chief of the army (like the marshal)
palace priest(ess)
In the temple there are also five positions
Master of ceremony
Sacrifice minister
Fertility rituals priestess
Commander of the temple guards
Preacher
The chief eunuch should be a eunuch. He and the fertility rites priestess may have special sexual importance. They rely on seduction. The priestess has sex with strangers like the rituals that were common at the time in the east. This helps her recruit spies or gather information about different countries. The chief eunuch caters for his master/mistress desires but also has good connections with the other people at court. He is a great spymaster. Eastern monarchs are more into internal spying than external spying. yet, they also had great ability to use sexual seduction to make alliances and to gather information about other nations. A temple priest may become a palace priest. The king and queen are co-rulers so as king or queen you may not be able to do anything without your co-ruler. The same in rome where there are two consuls. The experience of a government where you have to manoeuvre is quite interesting.
 
More personal interaction within the governments. Some internal intrigues. Since CKII engine will be used so seduction maybe a good idea. I sometimes easily turn a lover to a co-conspirator in CKII. Factions within the government are a cool thing. More emphasis on the role of temples esp. in the east.
 
Two consuls instead of one in Rome making decisions difficult. In Carthage, the civil authorities are separated from the military ones. Two Shufets and one commander in each big province. The punic cities under carthage are somehow independent. If you win a big battle cities may change loyalties as governors either defect or run away
 
I am going to merge this with the other Rome idea threads since Rome is not in development.
 
In Carthage, the civil authorities are separated from the military ones. Two Shufets and one commander in each big province. The punic cities under carthage are somehow independent. If you win a big battle cities may change loyalties as governors either defect or run away

The Carthaginian state was generally reluctant to go to war, but got pulled into conflict by ambitious governors / generals. In particular the Barcids (Hannibal's family) seem to have had a 'viceregal' authority in Iberia.
 
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I want it to be everything that Total War Rome 2 wasn't.
that's a lot, mate. have mercy on paradox devs.
:p

but you are right. if this is going to be a project at all they would have to give a different perspective.
 
"Egypt should be different from the other eastern monarchies."

Egypt was ruled by a Macedonian / Greek dynasty, the Ptolemies, from Alexandria. They ruled Egypt from Alexandria, but Alexandria was not regarded as part of Egypt. It was referred to as Alexandria by Egypt. It was only the last of the Ptolemies Kleopatra VII (that Cleopatra) who actually learned the Egyptian language. The Seleucids similarly ruled from Mesopotamia, not from Babylon, the former administrative capital of the Persian Satrap (governor) and capital of the Neo Babylonian Empire, but a new Greek city built nearby Seleucia. A similar situation to the relationship between Alexandria and Egypt ?

Egypt did retain its 'Pharonic religion' though this had changed and evolved over time and the priests had significant authority and power. Rebellions against Ptolemaic rule would probably have either been inspired by disgruntled priests or sought support from priests.
 
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The starting date can be 509. Rome becomes a republic and is looking forward to having an active role in Italy. Signing a treaty with Carthage that seeks the help of the Romans against piracy. In the East, the first cosmopolitan empire is founded. However, as they annexed Ionia, they realized that the Greeks cannot be handled. They must destroy Athens where political changes are underway. Solon will become Archon in 500 bc and draft a new constitution to appease the poor strata who have left the city. This is not the only thing Darius has to worry about. In Egypt, independence has never left the mind of the Egyptians. The Jews are trying to return to their land from captivity in Babylon. Will Ester conquer the heart of the king?
 
If a Dark Age game couldn't be made, I'd like Rome 2 to have an exporter that takes your game if it ends in 200s AD, overruns your Roman empire with barbarians, and makes the most stable part of your empire the Byzantine style part of it, while all the cultures outside it are repaced with CK2 cultures. Seems a bit off tho.
 
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More battle traits for commanders. I really want to see military genius have effect on the results of battles. So 1000 Spartans under Leonidas may defeat 10000 Persians under a less competent commander. so characters should have personality traits and battle traits. Hannibal should not lose just because he is outnumbered.
 
Trade was something I didn't like in Rome. This is handled better in EUIV.
The this province exchanges this resource with this province model was simplistic, tended to structure internal markets and was a state managed top down model that would be more true of the Palatial Bronze Age than the more complicated Iron Age / Classical Age.
Apart from certain state managed enterprises that had a specific purpose, the primary example being ensuring Rome's grain supply, which applies only late in the period covered by Rome, trade was largely left to entrepreneurs. The state's interest was in extracting taxes from economic activity.
So similar to EUIV please, but probably without state directed merchants. Unless perhaps you have state officials with specific duties, like ensuring Rome's grain supply ?
 
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More battle traits for commanders. I really want to see military genius have effect on the results of battles. So 1000 Spartans under Leonidas may defeat 10000 Persians under a less competent commander. so characters should have personality traits and battle traits. Hannibal should not lose just because he is outnumbered.

I have my concerns about battles that can drag on for days, when ancient battles generally took hours. Yes armies could and did delay the fateful day of battle by refusing battle and sitting in camp, possibly until additional forces arrived. Also armies did attempt to avoid battle and retreat from camp under cover of darkness, sometimes being caught in the attempt. Battles that take days make sense for the 'industrial age', but not the ancient period or I'd argue the EUIV period.

The 'genius', luck, cunning, charismatic leadership or whatever of certain ancient generals should be somehow reflected in this game. How exactly I'm not sure. Also there are two 'styles' of command or leadership in the ancient Mediterranean. Greek / Hellenistic generals, with few exceptions, led from the front, often at the decisive point on the field; in contrast Roman and Carthaginian generals tended to command, directing operations, a mobile command centre.

Perhaps there is a difference between a king or his heir or captains leading that king's forces and the representatives of a state commanding the forces of that state ?
 
More battle traits for commanders. I really want to see military genius have effect on the results of battles. So 1000 Spartans under Leonidas may defeat 10000 Persians under a less competent commander. so characters should have personality traits and battle traits. Hannibal should not lose just because he is outnumbered.

I seem to recall my 20,000 man army led by a 9 martial general getting the crap kicked out of them by 4,000 led by a 10 martial general. No thank you. Should be taken into account, but the one time that 500 held off a whole Persian army should not be the standard for the system.
 
Trade was something I didn't like in Rome. This is handled better in EUIV.
The this province exchanges this resource with this province model was simplistic, tended to structure internal markets and was a state managed top down model that would be more true of the Palatial Bronze Age than the more complicated Iron Age / Classical Age.
Apart from certain state managed enterprises that had a specific purpose, the primary example being ensuring Rome's grain supply, which applies only late in the period covered by Rome, trade was largely left to entrepreneurs. The state's interest was in extracting taxes from economic activity.
So similar to EUIV please, but probably without state directed merchants. Unless perhaps you have state officials with specific duties, like ensuring Rome's grain supply ?

While I do agree that Romes trade model ain't perfect I think atleast for me is much more fun that EU4 trade model. But that might be because I mostly play the mod ROA where there are more tradegoods and more trade holdings per province. I think Romes trade model can be expanded further and with the use of trade goods to delibratly focus provinces to be specialize in something.
 
I seem to recall my 20,000 man army led by a 9 martial general getting the crap kicked out of them by 4,000 led by a 10 martial general. No thank you. Should be taken into account, but the one time that 500 held off a whole Persian army should not be the standard for the system.

Atleast it's better than CK2 where the number of troops alone is almost the only important factor in the battle.
 
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