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What do you think about the new monarch system?

  • I like it

    Votes: 262 51,9%
  • I have doubts, but am willing to give it a chance

    Votes: 184 36,4%
  • I don't like it

    Votes: 55 10,9%
  • Other, please specify

    Votes: 4 0,8%

  • Total voters
    505
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Aug 14, 2006
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I like it a lot! :D
I always tried not to think about the next monarch and base my decisions on the then present situation but could never totally avoid knowing about the successors of my stupid king.
Same with the events BTW. Helps a lot to change history in a plausible way!
 

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I do not like it really, it seems too generic I want to be able to rp as some of the great monarchs in history, and I like to know what they have done in real life.
Also by getting rid of monarchs you can't use the same sort of event system, they must become generic as well, you cannot have Russia moves its capital to St Petersburg if Peter the Great does not rule, and I really dislike the idea of situational events. Most of this is suspicion of the way that CK was done, which is not in any way historical in how it plays out and it would be a shame for me if a similiar thing happens to the EU series.
 

miloc

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It feels bland, I don't like it. Why should it be gamey to wait for a good monarch to achieve things? It were these excellent monarchs who achieved things after all.

EDIT: I would also like to add that I don't think history is made by a mere chain of conditions and effects. Especially in the period of EU III with its rise of absolutism the personality of the Monarch played an important part in what happened. Leaving that out does not satisfy me.
 
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Twoflower

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Well, yesterday's DD and especially the discussion in that thread made me change my mind from considering whether I should buy a new computer to make EU3 run smoothly to wondering whether I'll want to play it at all or just stick with EU2.
Don't get me wrong: it looks like there are going to be several lovely features, but I'm really afraid that Paradox's new product will lack the things that made EU2 the best game I ever played.
I even think that basically the new monarch system is a good idea, simply because it will allow for representing dynastic politics, which were of immense importance during EU's timeframe and without which playing Austria or Brandenburg-Prussia doesn't really make much sense (becoming a strong country just because of freeby events instead of as a result of a clever dynastic strategy is not what a game should be about).
However, I see two problems:
1. As pointed out, there is the risk that the game will become too generic. It will definitely lose a lot from its learning effect while playing and the possibility to interact with cool historical personalities like Frederick the Great, G2A or Elizabeth (in one game, I know that it will be possible to start at any historical date). Although these are things that contributed a lot to EU2's flair, that could be ok if it is the price for a more realistic and flexible gameplay.
What would entirely break the game however is if it became too much like CK, in the way that all countries don't play much differently. The greatest thing about EU2 is probably its almost infinite replayability.
Therefore, I sincerely hope that Paradox will keep in some specific characteristics for each country beyond its scenario setup. Just as an idea, I think it would be very cool to be able to define certain attributes for a nation's ruling dynasty, that will make its generic monarchs special and give them an individual "feel".
2. I don't want the game to be too "unpredictable", as Arilou put it, in a certain way. On the one hand, it is entirely desirable to avoid straightjacketing a player and to make the game adapt to a player's decisions and actions instead of triggering historical events in situations where they are just absurd, like a bankruptcy for an entirely prosperous Spain or a two-province France creating the Chambers of Reunion. Any improvement in that direction would be great, and appreciated by an overwhelming majority of the players.
On the other hand, what I'd hate to see is the game becoming entirely random. Ideally, ahistoric developments should only come as a result of player actions. Of course, there is a massive butterfly effect, but I'd like other the development and actions of AI countries to usually be historical as far as they are not affected by player actions.
 
Last edited:

Bodders

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curtis said:
If you start in 1506, you'll see Babur create the Mughal Empire.

Well, we don't know that because we don't know how the event chain works. If it can be created by anyone and doesn't 'require' Babur as leader then that will drop immersion for me. If it does require Babur then it would be weird to only have the Mughals if you start in his reign. So, maybe it simply requires a large Islamic power in India which then gets the name change.

Who knows? But the point comes down to...

1) If I want to see the Mughal Empire why should I have to start in 1506?
2) If I don't have to start then, why should any old King and not 'the tiger' be able to create the Mughals?
 

Ayeshteni

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I definately think we need to see a Beta AAR to have any understanding of how this is going to 'work' as it were. :D

I love CK and its dynamism.

I love EU2. Taught me all I needed to know on history, and made me motivated to bury myself further in the subject.

I am a mite concerned that this monarch system will seem too generic - but thats the EU2 player in me. The CK player is jumping for joy and so I am torn, but I think that its understandable from EU2 fans. Its the 'change' that always worries fans of the system.

I can see huge potential in this new system, but at the same time the EU2 fan in me shrieks in fear (maybe irrationally, maybe not).

I would like to see it in action.

We will lose 'historicity' (in the events and specific monarchs through a game) but we will get a game that is dynamic and will not seem weird, bizarre, out-of-whack with the game ACTUALLY happening. That will make it immensely more immersive than the EU2 system. Our actions will have consequences, have relevance to our policies, diplomatic actions and the way we ACTUALLY conduct our country's domestic and international policies.

This I like, a lot. As long as the developers manage to retain character for the country being played (unlike CK) then I think it will work out very well.

It therefore has my support.... with a few little reservations which I hope to have blown away.

Ayeshteni
 

Prince Ares

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I have doubts, but am willing to give it a chance
I like the idea, but it must work so that historical events can occur without any problem. For example, I think that the event descriptions could include something like this:

event_desc: In { date = current } the Ottomans captured Cairo. { monach = TUR } now annexed the Mamluck empire, and established Ottoman control over Egypt.
 

Tamerlan

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"Other, please specify"

you'll see two schools on that at the moment.

If you do not know if you have an undisputed heir it will sound somehow bizarre to have a sudden succession war. Some level of randomness could be thought of, but it would be nice to know if you have a son who can inherit.
 

unmerged(58571)

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I think I will like it.
I hope it will not be impossible to get some of the more famous historical monarchs if the conditions are right, but if that is the price for not having a one-province Prussia revolting from whomever getting all the monarchs and leaders that rightly belong to Brandenburg owning 90% of Germany, then that is a price I'm willing to pay.
 

Vricklund

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Think I like it. But I'll miss the educational element of EU2.

Since there are some sort of monarch entries for each nation keeping track of names and dynasties we can always hope the game will know when to awaken some of the more important faces in history.

If all else fails I guess the event system is flexible enough to script in historical monarchs if the conditions are right.
 

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It has some potential. I hope tough that in the random pool of monarch, you'll includea probability for some historic monarch. For example, In Austria, Phil the Great XXII dies in 1744. I'd like a certain % of probability to get Maria Theresa with hardcoded stats.
 

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I'm behind it one hundred percent, since this is the system I wanted from day one. It never made any rational sense at all that you could alter the geopolitical landscape of the entire world and yet the same bloody monarchs would come, would rule, and would die on schedule no matter what had gone before.

But then, I play the game to CREATE history, not to watch a boring second-rate rerun of it.

Max
 

Assos

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Quoth Wayne in Wayne's World: "ZANG!"

I have read where some people are unhappy because they need a purely historical game. That is just it, what if Henry VIII had sons that survived past age or Edward lived alittle long to sire an heir or two. This is a game that is designed to simulate what-ifs and not re-create history. I have a whole room of books one can read if they want to re-create history. I play EU to make new history.
 

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Assos said:
Quoth Wayne in Wayne's World: "ZANG!"

I have read where some people are unhappy because they need a purely historical game. That is just it, what if Henry VIII had sons that survived past age or Edward lived alittle long to sire an heir or two. This is a game that is designed to simulate what-ifs and not re-create history. I have a whole room of books one can read if they want to re-create history. I play EU to make new history.


So finding out of Edward XII's son Bert IV lived longer is what you are aiming for?

I understand your point but you need some sort of real history to make diversion from it interesting, and I am afraid that use of this system will mean any resemblance to real history will have gone by 1500 :(
 

Captain Frakas

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The word "like" isn't enought strong to reflect what I think about this new monarch system ;)
It's just what I've always wanted to see in Europa Universalis since the release of Crusader Kings...

"I like it."
 

OHgamer

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Compared to not having any monarchs at all in Victoria, I like it.

But since everything seems like it is going to be super-moddable, what I'd probably do, since I'm a mad neurotic modder as it is, is change all the monarch names to "The Monarch" and then develop events to create the historical dynasties and reigns, so you'd get the historical monarchs with their proper characteristics via event (kinda like what we have in Vicky with certain monarch cornonation events). There might not be the name Elizabeth I on screen, but "The Monarch" have would then have Liddy's special qualities if England's condition warrants it for the event to trigger.

In the end, modding has an answer to almost every problem or dispute in a Paradox game. :D
 
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