What do you think about Sengoku ?

[Darthvegeta800]

For now the game is good but it could be excellent with more events and far more tweaking. The game needs more courtiers, plotting must come FAR more easily. If one faction AI or human is overly large surrounding Clans must be very inclined to enter or start plots. Once a faction obtains 25 percent of Japan there must be something to slow down the inevitable 'bulldozer' effect.

One thing I'd like Paradox to implement is a post Shogun phase. When human or A.I. becomes Shogun he has several large advantages but his closest competitors become extremely hostile and try to 'dogpile' him. This would expand the game but also have a balancing factor i think.

 

[Yuni]

I think Sengoku is absolutely brilliant game. But my concerns over three small thing led to vote "Very good" game.
1. In my personal opinion, Stage is narrow. But it is the geologic thing. I am understand.
2. All thing solidified too early. Maybe it would be enough time to enjoy managing clan or building or ruling court more. in CK2. But in Sengoku, Lord should attack and take fast as possible. Of course, time is Sengoku period. But there is no time to enjoy building or manage clan. All effort should concentrate over the war.
3. Heir of Kokujin. Maybe it is my lack of knowing but how I decide heir if I am Kokujin?
All thing is fun and interesting. I appreciate all thing and all people about Sengoku.

 

[unmerged(212811)]

Many Damiyo would work together against common enemies. And even agree to split territories between them.

This is already in the game, though. We call it "plotting."

 

[Mnoracle]

Voted average, my main grip is low replayability

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

This is already in the game, though. We call it "plotting."

And the AI is so great at plotting.

 

[jeffreys14b]

I gave it a 3 for good game. Had it been another developer, I'd have given it a 2. Needs more depth as others have said. I do love the visual improvements by the way.

 

[unmerged(197434)]

4. Very good game, but plotting is pretty tough and some things need work. Great replay, as you can start as any number of characters in any number of clans, which is awesome. Lowly Lord of a small island clan or Clan Chief of a mighty mainland bully.

Wish I saw more plotting and AI joining/forming new clans. Just haven't seen a lot of it yet.

 

[PrinceofSparta]

I love the game.

 

[Zakuno2]

Sengoku is a very good game. I like it so far. And paradox seems worried that this game is not getting enough buzz. Probably because it's Asian history.

 

[timetogetaway]

I went with an Average Game. Now before you all set on me like a pack of rabid wolves understand that there is nothing wrong with being average. The game has potential, that's for sure, but for that potential to come to fruition I expect there will need to be a few patches, mods, and expansions released.

What potential do I see in it? Well, I recognize that it is a war game--and it does war pretty well--but it also seems to be trying to be a game of intrigue. It is not, in it's current state, the latter. As for the former, it is a war game in the sense that I pick a target and relentlessly click at it as the game whizzes by on 4-speed. It's a game, but it's just missing that special something. (also: see EU:R)

 

[The Disaster]

I voted 4 - very good game. I have been supporting and praising this game and its players on this forum and elsewhere since the day it was released. I hate writing this post, but I feel that I need to!

Sadly, the more I play this the more I reach the conclusion that this is nothing like a wargame or a military simulation. In its current state, the magical levy game (to keep half-filled units or disband them so that they pop up - often at full strength - in their home provinces), the total lack of supply, experience and attrition, the psychic level of C3i shown by all involved and the ghastly experience of chasing an army back and forth between two provinces, to name just a few, entirely break the wiilling suspension of disbelief required to get into a game. The lousy 'diplomacy' and 'intrigue' (probably not working as designed), the absence of seasons, no technological advances apart from firearms, and the feeble province improvements mean that I cannot bring myself to spend time on Sengoku as it now is.

In other words, as a Paradox player since EU, I am disappointed by this apparently shallow product. Others will love it, I understand, and I respect their views. For me, though, the game is quite a disappointment.

Now, after playing for much longer, I would barely rate Sengoku a '2'. BUT I do have great hopes for it once patched and probably modded!

 

[.Spartan]

Currently I rated it at a two (2) mainly due to the UI issues with its muddled access to information and absence of and lack of scaling for those of us with 30" or bigger monitors, oddball AI antics, an in effective diplomacy and a very deficient court system, a severe shortage of global options, A seemingly underdeveloped family tree/lineage system, with a general failing on the principle charter focus element, an apparently unfinished event and plot system, balancing issues and more.

With that said, there is much potential for it to be sure and I have no doubt that a few patches down the road it will evolve into a venerable, dare I say staple or classic general introduction title for complex grand strategy games which is the corner stone of the PI pedigree.

In short to me it comes across as more of a lite hybrid introduction experience to CK and EU type of games (without a tutorial) and mechanics or maybe another way of saying it is that it is a "beer and pretzels" mixer for those just getting into the genera or PI games in general.

 

[The Disaster]

I really don't understand what others are finding so great about the graphics.

Can something be done to improve the graphical feedback? The map, even on terrain mode, is very uninformative; the graphics do not clearly indicate the level of development in a province and there are no pop-ups on the map to indicate, say, the castle level (or likely garrison) of a province you are mousing over. I would have thought that this basic level of graphical feedback would have been automatic on a strategy game, especially when I can see that 287 troops are marching across a plain several hundred miles away and I even know the exact date that they will arrive in another province.

I do hope something can be done!

 

[DaLlaw]

I enjoy the concept, but of course, I am also a Crusader Kings fan (eagerly awaiting CK2). I do prefer the complexity of Crusader Kings to Sengoku. As far as Sengoku is concerned, I would like to see more development with regards to plots, province development, and diplomacy. I also find that the game leads heavily towards "whoever has the most provinces is most likely to win". All provinces have the same "stats", and therefore the host with the most has an unfair advantage. This is enhanced by the limited province development, the division of development bonuses limited to and divided among all retinue units, and the uniform similarity of the largest number of units (the levies). Given that certain clans start with a large lead with regards to the number of provinces, this make it a catch-up game for those who like to play smaller clans. I realize this was done to emulate historical patterns, however, I doubt every kori in Japan had the exact same demographics, leading to a "skewed history". If you want the provinces to be exactly the same (for sake of simplicity), then you should consider making all Clans equal in size as well. Perhaps each clan could control one kuni with 5 kori each.

Now if plotting were enhanced, allowing for more effective and directed "limited alliances", this might alleviate some of these issues (giving equal consideration to political and military might).

 

[The Disaster]

I find the '5 kori or fewer' rule for Clan leaders artificial and rather annoying. The second I have 6 kori, all of my provinces consider rebelling. The second I give 1 kori to my small child, which would be largely meaningless in the real world, all my provinces are magically happy again. And it doesn't matter if I am the most incompetent or the most gifted leader - I can manage 5 kori. That is just plain daft!

Also shouldn't really large clans work a little differently? Even if I rule 80% of Japan (just a dream!!!) I can still only hold 5 kori myself.

 

[Marconius]

By the way, am I the only one who really liked the idea for levies laid out in the manual that was later changed? Namely, if you have at least 5% of the total army strength as a vassal, you control your levies? I thought this would have added a lot to warfare, meaning you'd need to rely more on your vassals instead of having control of nearly everything. It would have also made room for cool additions like war councils that aren't in any Paradox game, far as I know.

 

[The Disaster]

That would have been good.

Also, at present it seems that I control some of my clan's forces while the others wander around almost randomly attacking enemy provinces, thereby preventing any sort of joint strategy. Surely my vassals would at least work with me, especially if my Clan leader is honourable and popular?

By the way, I do apologise to my fellow forum members for my recent negative posts! I feel that Sengoku could be a truly FANTASTIC game - but I have come across so many little things (all right, some not so little) that have really frustrated me that I have been rather disillusioned this morning. I hope it passes, and soon!

 

[fbaker4]

A 3.5 -> 4.

I've played through about 8 or 9 games, as clan leader, as minor kokujin, as a daimyo vassal. I'm playing normal, and, I think because I am a bit of a Japanese history buff, I find the game very entertaining. I know that the period was long on war, and short on inter- and intra-clan diplomacy. No clan trusted each another, and intra-clan, the Lord's word was absolute. Additionally, there were very few technological developments. So in all these things, I find that the game is accurate, and for me, accuracy increases enjoyment.

I have seen major clans (20-40% holding) break and splinter into a dozen new clans. I have seen pretenders instigate a clan civil war, and win. I have broken away from my clan leader, and forged a major clan. I have had tightly knit clans, and clans with pieces all over. I have seen plots succeed, and plots be exposed.

I have not mastered the marriage process, and I regularly run out of courtiers.

Suggestions:
*I do believe that the accurate, and innovative, succession model could be more in-depth. I think that it's really cool, between clan leader, heirs, pretenders, and voters, but that it could be more critical.

*I would like to be able to split up my personal retinue, and have more control over who leads what.

*I would like to see the Kori limit be able to expand or contract, even a little, based on leader skill. Maybe one scale based on age (0-10=0, 10-15=1, 15+ = 2) with a second and third scales based on leader scores and on modified leader scores (Master of X + Wife modifiers). So my current guy, Naito Akiyoshi, age 63 [3/9/16] might have 7 kuni allowed, (age=2+Intrigue>15=3+Wife Intrigue>10=1+Master of the Guard Intrigue>10=1), but if he dies, and the successor is an unmarried brat, maybe it falls to 4 kuni.

*I would like to see some visual change to the land with each village improvement, esp. roads, canals, irregation, rice storage, etc.

*Where are the earthquakes and typhoons? Those are every-year issues, (unlike tsunami).

*What about some kind of designation for a place of special interest? Either a place with 'better' metal that might improve swordmakers, or better lands for horsebreeding, even a larger town or city making for a better kabuki theatre. In the same vein, the reason that the Yamato is the locus of Dai Nippon is that it's blessed with gold, metal, and grazing lands - things that not all Kuni were; in fact, nearly all Kuni did not have all three.

*I echo the sentiment of another poster that having some influence on the kokujin in military matters would be fun; the ability to set Clan priorities for attack, for instance, similar to the HoI3 ability to set 'lines' of AI action.

*The colors for the Kuni of Settsu and Izumi are the same...and those of Ise and Iga are too similar, as are Wakasa and Tanba, and Echizen-Kaga-Noto.

*I find the Relationships and Diplomatic map-views very confusing. Some kind of standardized color scheme/schema would be helpful.

*Being able to give smaller gifts to people might expand the early diplomacy options. I have found through many games (considering the time that I've had it - I did buy first hour of first day, GMT-5) the key seems to be to build a retinue fast, focus on a one village, and several castles in step, attack smallers and overwhelm swiftly, then save up for Guilds asap. Once a guild is built, protect it by fortifiying that castle. But at even 6 kori, and a process of expansion, there's nothing left to build in 50-100 years; Masters only then get used for other tasks. (of course, if one starts as a single land Kokujin, there's more diplomacy, etc. at start) But since there's no money at start, the game-flow seems to be bifurcated between trying to do everything at start to trying to plot and position towards the end.

*I loved the HoI 2 detail about the commander's exploits 'Commander of the winning battle of Stalingrad' - and something like that could happen if a battle was A) named, or B) was 'randomly' markered as a Famous Battle (poems written about, etc.) like the Battle of Shizugatake, which might not have been notable at all, except that the loser regained the Honor he lost by killing his family, setting his castle aflame, and then committing seppuku. That's the sort of thing that Sengoku was about. We need that! YOU need that!

*And speaking of, any battle where your troops are defeated should be an Honor loss; any battle where your retinue is defeated should be a larger Honor loss. If your retinue wins, well, it's supposed to, no Honor gain. But if your retinue is outnumbered AND wins, the Honor gain should be in line with the degree of outnumbed, and the quality of troops faces. Retinue v. levy, not so much. Retinue v. rebels, even less.

*Any action that requires Honor should have a gain if successful and a loss if not. So I ask for a marriage - it should cost something - HONOR! If I'm clan Lameo, and ask a Yamana Princess for her hand, it should cost more Honor, and if rejected, come with an Honor penalty, in line with the target - a Yamana Princess should carry more penalty! But if it's accepted, then I should gain back some of the Honor that I paid for the asking, and in the case of Lameo Tomo, should actually result in an Honor gain! (Asking anyone= -1 + target clan has >100% more honor (total honor of all Kori holders) than your clan = +10 + target of action (marriage in this case) has >50% more Honor (total honor of target+leige+spouse+masters) =+5 == total Honor cost for Lameo Tomo to ask Yamana Princess is 16 and if Tomo gets rejected, it could cost an additional 50% = 8. But if he's successful, then maybe he gets it all back, or all back +25%, or something. Could be formula driven, but Honor is and was the essential currency; and that's not enough of the game.

*What about some 'events' options that were perhaps not historical, but might make for some great twists? One could enable the chance for these though the options screen, for instance, and might involve some diplomatic/military events with Korea and China, or additional involvement with the Dutch, Portugese, or other European traders, legendary swordsmen (Where's my man Bizen?), those darn Mongols, pesky Ainu, or even some kind of Oni incusion?



So that's 14 suggestions. I hope that 1) you read this! and 2) that the suggestions are helpful and 3) that you're already implementing them.

Ok, I have to get back to trying to destroy the EU through currency manipulation, shorting Greek, Italian, Spanish and Finnish sovreign debt, and pushing up the stock of German and French companies that are run by folks who oppose another bailout for the Greeks et al. Wish me luck! It's kinda like Sengoku - trust no one, plot against everyone, and go to war.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

After a couple of games more, I think the main problem is spatial organization.

I played more games with the aim of keeping my clan clean, meaning under 10 direct vassals (ten to be reached towards the end of the game) As I thought handing down fiefs to sons of direct vassals was a major cause of failure, I limited to handing down land and titles to sons and direct vassals.

I never succeeded in achieving that. I discovered that the lower in title I started, the less success I gathered, the more direct vassals I had in the end.

It is obvious when you think of it because when starting as a daimyo and inheriting from the clan leader title, you also inherit the vassals.

Maybe one reason the game collapses. As you have 30 or 40 vassals, it is hard for them to organize and get into a civil war, none of them is powerful enough to challenge his liege. The situation might be different if one has only five or six direct vassals growing more and more powerful. A couple of them leaving the clan or initiating a civil war would withdraw much military power from the clan leader.

If a clan leader has 30 direct vassals owning each a province, considering the demands on plotting and all, it looks unlikely 16 will meet the requirements to join an uprising against the liege. Now, if four direct vassals own the same, it might only take one or two to be in good conditions. Looks more feasible.

At the moment, it looks like mechanics to force the player to decrease the number of direct vassals are missing. And as having a large number of vassals owning a few provinces each might be more advantageous than having a fistful of direct vassals with daimyo titles and their own vassals, well, you end with the situation blobbing up is absolutely not an inconvenient but the goal.

 

[Nefaro]

After a couple of games more, I think the main problem is spatial organization.

I played more games with the aim of keeping my clan clean, meaning under 10 direct vassals (ten to be reached towards the end of the game) As I thought handing down fiefs to sons of direct vassals was a major cause of failure, I limited to handing down land and titles to sons and direct vassals.

I never succeeded in achieving that. I discovered that the lower in title I started, the less success I gathered, the more direct vassals I had in the end.

It is obvious when you think of it because when starting as a daimyo and inheriting from the clan leader title, you also inherit the vassals.

Maybe one reason the game collapses. As you have 30 or 40 vassals, it is hard for them to organize and get into a civil war, none of them is powerful enough to challenge his liege. The situation might be different if one has only five or six direct vassals growing more and more powerful. A couple of them leaving the clan or initiating a civil war would withdraw much military power from the clan leader.

If a clan leader has 30 direct vassals owning each a province, considering the demands on plotting and all, it looks unlikely 16 will meet the requirements to join an uprising against the liege. Now, if four direct vassals own the same, it might only take one or two to be in good conditions. Looks more feasible.

At the moment, it looks like mechanics to force the player to decrease the number of direct vassals are missing. And as having a large number of vassals owning a few provinces each might be more advantageous than having a fistful of direct vassals with daimyo titles and their own vassals, well, you end with the situation blobbing up is absolutely not an inconvenient but the goal.

I'm hoping that the fixes for the bugs which are making Plotting, and some diplomacy options, extremely difficult to accomplish will also help out the AI's ability to function better in such instances. It should, just gotta look toward the update.