What do you think about Sengoku ?

[vanin]

Suggestion time!

Problem: The game strives to call itself "character-driven" and while it is the characters are not that dominant. EU:Rome for example makes me feel much more involved with the character currently at the head of the country I play.

Suggested Solution: More events for the characters. There really isn't much to do while at peace other than try start up the next plot to prepare for the next war, events can really spice that time spent doing nothing up. We know you can make very interesting and immersive events, CK and Rome have both shown that, let's see that happen in Sengoku as well.

Problem: The AI practically ignores offers of peace. I can be brutally smashing them but still want to keep an iconic clan as a vassal and they will still decline, the "rather death than servitude" mindset strikes me as rather odd. Furthermore the peace AI doesn't really seem to make any offers of peace even when it would benefit both me and them, and doesn't accept such peace offers either. Example: Me and AI target are at war, two other clans attack us, one respectively. We could sign a peace treaty here to focus on these new external threats, but the AI would rather crash and burn.

Suggested Solution: Make the AI a little less suicidal while at war. It is smart when it is at peace and planning plots (for the most part) but when it comes to war it seems to believe that peace is utterly non-benificial to them no matter the situation.

Problem: Again with the "boredom at peace".

Suggested Solution: Can't really say much here as my knowledge on 16th century Japan is very weak. Add some kind of feature, whether it be trade or something else, that fits the period and environment but also has the possibility of engaging the player when he or she isn't scrambling armies across the map.

 

[Blxz]

2 - Average Game. While I enjoy the game the interface has issues, some quite frustrating. Plots and plotting itself are not transparent and oftens seem quite arbitrary. Also in relation to plots, there seems to be a complete lack of threat detection among the AI countries in an effort to stop larger powers. Diplomacy feels limited, essentially only to war, marriage or a gift.

Character interaction is very shallow almost to the point of them not being neccessary and the distinct lack of personality is appaling for a 'character' game. Character mortality rates and other various events in the game need some serious tweaking. Honour, relation effects, size issues and game pacing are also in need of adjustment to control the gameplay and to actually have some relevance in some cases.

Furthermore, the fact that many major issues with the game seem to disappear the more human players present in the game highlight a few glaring issues with the AI.
I could go on but they are covered by many other threads out there. I am sure the developers are aware of the issues.

The Good: Warfare plays well with battles being descisive and troops and 'manpower' being represented in a fairly fun way. The differences with levies and retinue are fun and the steady build-up of a personal army over the course of the game is a nice little abstract representation of the period. The ablity to control your whole clans levies while the vassals themselves still control their retinues independantly and fairly smartly is a nice touch.

EDIT: The whole 'Nominate Heir' idea deserves a special mention as I think it was implemented very well. Pretenders are a real threat in this game but for any nation played well they are not an issue normally. I don't have the feeling of arbitrarily enforced 'rebels' that haven't a hope in hell of winning. Each 'rebel' character in the game can be a real and serious potential threat. I like this feature very much.

The building system is a definate step forward with the income deduction for province improvments and by using your advisors/court rather than the upfront cost of building as in previous paradox titles. Religions are nice although the balance of the various factions is perhaps off slightly.

Overall: An average game. I said that I liked it in my first paragraph and that statement is true but more often than not I find myself quitting the game out of pure frustration. It is not an easy game to play. Having to force myself to delve through annoying character interfaces quickly becomes old and finding myself blocked by a major clan that is destroying the map, has terrible honour, terrible vassal relations and yet seems to be best buddies with every other nation out there right up until they get eaten really burns the fun out of this game.
I've actually stopped playing it now and have chalked it up to wasted money on my part. I still do check the forums and will fire it up as each new patch comes out in the hopes that I can justify the expense but overall this game is no more (or less) than average.

 

[GShock]

Voted very good game.

The issue is simple: A game of this complexity takes a decade to develop.
Considering the committed manpower, helped by the experience of the same type of games Paradox has on the shelves, it will probably take less. I am totally shocked about its potential and I voted good game only because it's just been released.

Give it time!

 

[alcapwn1]

I gave it a 4 for very good.

It's a really interesting concept, and well executed. Also beautiful.

The things that are not quite to my taste include the relatively short timeline - I understand why it is what it is, but I want more time to manoeuvre my clan into power through diplomatic means. I would also want more time to develop my characters with new traits etc... So this could mean the same timelines, but more turns in that same time frame? I love getting attached to a character, seeing him grow, and then feeling sad as he gets old and I know death is near.

And this is the second thing I would want tweaking - more diplomatic opportunities to grow - so invite people to clan would work when you provide a logical haven. And marriages would have more potential for tying groups together.

Finally I would want more control over my vassals IF they like me. So the ability to suggest where they should attack from/to in a war, but with the possibility that they ignore you (not the hoi3 ignore where it just doesn't work).

But overall, the game is really good, I love the mechanics of it, and the difficulty - I have been annexed twice, so cool, never really happened in any other paradox games. And the pace is good - frantic, things always changing, even though I want more time!

Good job paradox!

 

[Ayrien]

I gave a "good" grade. The amount of hours I've poured into it suggests that it has captured me but there are a few things that I find myself grinding my teeth about:

- The way the AI seems timid. "Oh no! We can't join the plot, our honor is too low and I'd have to commit suicide - or worse my brother could stage a coup" "Their honor is too high! We cannot fight the sparkles!" "We don't really want to fight them now... I mean, why fight when I can wait till they come and claim my land by force" - I may have taken some liberties but.. *cough*

To my mind some of this could be eased if the honor cost for fighting a (much) larger clan was lowered, the honor cost shared among the participants perhaps. That way enough smaller contries might be inclined to actually join in.

- Character development. I like it, I actually hoped there would be more. The "ambition" system though... Either it is overpowered at the moment, the rate of which my vassals regain their ambitions can make a shrewd ruler make a powerhouse of followers - OR there is a lack of development for the ruling class. You would think 30 years of experience as Master of Ceremony would give you some experience in Diplomacy, but that doesn't really happen. My (retarded) son who became clan leader (because the rest of my sons died off) had to go through some 30+ years of service with only 3 Diplomacy and even less martial (thankfully he married with a decent wife, who made life livable in court) but even at his death his stats had only varied slightly (partly due to a bad case of leperism). I'd wish that either these random events came more often and that they attributed a bit to the character rather than "just" the clan. +5 honor, -5 gold, +25 relationship with your (wonderful) cousin OR that the characters developed skills as they worked. A stat once every two years (or something) and given to the catagory that mostly fit the ruler - Hireing ninja and plots, or making ceaseless war and leading armies constantly, or sitting at home building cities and gathering honor... or something.

- Some interfaces are just not helping - partly also due to that "ambitions" mentioned earlier. The easiest place to find all your courtiers (short of just making ALL your courtiers employ ALL council positions for a few days) is the "Court" tap under your character, and then you have to manually click each member to see what they would like to be. Lucky me I actually had too few people to fill the council positions in a rather long period so I didn't have to worry (Didn't get any semi-divine advicers though...), but clans with 40+ people that is just not going to happen.

- Inviting others to join your clan... Well, yes. I can't comment MUCH on it as I've never seen it actually work. As hinted earlier I had a few decades where I had two council positions empty. With some honor banked (who was I going to give the land to anyways if I went to war?) I tried to tempt other clan's vassals, courtiers, daimyo... The need for more honor than their current leader is reasonable but also very confining as the AI (as mentioned earlier) is VERY cautious of using their honor. Perhaps because they fear I might steal their subjects.


I hope I don't come across too ranting, it wasn't my intention. Just hoping to push a little in what may be the right direction.

 

[Julyan]

I gave it a 3. There's some derpy design decisions (why is sow dissent, finding ninjas, improving relations done with a random event? And why is every province identical in income and levy numbers?), balance issues (honor gain and how easy it is to keep 100 honor at all times) and there's nothing to do while you're waiting for your levies to replenish for the next war. I've had fun though and I don't regret buying it especially if there's a patch or five coming out.

 

[Yrsnö]

It's a good game with even better potential to be great but it could really use deeper character systems and character driven politics. Patches will probably make tip this over to a very good game, an expansion geared towards the characters would hopefully cement it as a great game.

 

[Nimic]

I voted "good game", but I was a bit torn between that and "very good game". The reason I voted "good game" in the end is because I felt it suffered from the Rome curse. That is, it's just not enough of a game, seen in Paradox eyes. It's a lot of fun to play, but I don't think I'll play it for too long, just small, intense stretches.

If it gets a few patches, and maybe an expansion (preferably not one that costs too much), It can end up as a "brilliant" game.

But it does need a Vae Victis.

 

[Nemo29]

3 Good from me. I think it could soon be a Very good game once said fixes are done and some balancing etc. At the moment I am putting little time into the Single player really awaiting the next patch.. Multiplayer was great fun tho and the only issue being its hard to arrange time to play. But would play this alot more if easier to find the time.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

Would depend on what universe of games we are talking about.

In the universe of all games I might give it a 4, because it is very close to my preferences. The vast majority of games I have no interest in.

In the universe of games I actually buy I would make it an average 2, or maybe a bit below average 1.5. I really only buy a couple dozen games a year, and many of them are extremely good. I rarely make out and out mistakes where I buy and game and don't like it and will never play it again.

So lets say for the sake of argument I buy 24 games a year.
~6 of these I will love and pour tons of time into and buy all the DLC/expansions et cetera. (Civ5, STW2, Patched up VIC/HOI/EU, Portal 2, SotS)
~12 of these will get played for a couple weeks, and I will really like, but I rarely go back to them and only spend money on extras if I hear good things (A lot of the good indie games, CitiesXL2011, unpatched Vic/HOI/EU games)
~3 of them I will play for a few nights and enjoy, but then move on and don't buy. (Eu:Rome, Cities in Motion, Tropico 3, Some of the decent indie games)
~3 of these I will hate and immediately uninstall after a few hours (Actively bad games I regret buying)

I would say as released shogun falls mostly into the play a few nights category. But I kow paraodx generally polishes up its games pretty well, so I will probably wait for a few patches, play it again, and then maybe love it. If I hear great things about an expasion or am ejoying the game I may also buy that.

Overall I would say it has the potential to be solid, but needs some polishing.

 

[unmerged(356310)]

I would love to be able to use my ninja from the current window I am on with out having to go the ninja and find the character I wish to kidnap / assassinate.

Update:

On another note I have noticed major issues with saved games taking forever to load or just crashing the game all together when trying to load them.

 

[Cliff60]

Not bad but could be a lot better. Not complex enough. Shogun total war is far better and thats a very old game. Survival rates of children should be improved. Ive had to abandon 10 games so far due to everyone except my clan leader dying and none of his kids made it past 5 yrs old. I think its a lot better than the EU games which i thought were total crap but nowhere near as good as vicky 2 or the HOI series. But i ma addicted to it for now cause im determined to win lol. Been playing it non stop since i got it on saturday. Well apart from loo breaks that is lol. Im on game 11 at the mo and finally getting somewhere as bandu with 12% and in 4th place. My clan leader had 10 kids all but 1 died and took over. He has had 30 kids so far but only 2 have survived. So work needs doing to improve that. The AI cheats as well. IE they raise levies in kori that r under siege which is not allowed in the user manuel.

 

[LeeNTien]

I was very wary about it...
As any new game - it was rather expensive, and I wasn't so sure it'll be worth the money.
So I spent quite some time in demo etc, but then decided to get it - and so far I'm happy I did.
Very good game.
I love plotting system, hadn't encountered it anywhere else, and it seems to work - albeit very hard to master.
Wars - not too complicated, but still got some surprises there (oh how surprised I was after winning a war vs a clan almoust 3 times bigger than me, by simply stomping their huge armies to dust - I'm still not sure how that happened O__o)
I don't think it's as huge and long running as EU or HoI series though.

 

[unmerged(379310)]

I gave it a 3. its ok but i feel its just a stop gap for me until CKII comes out. im waiting for CKII because i think it should be better. Sengoku is just too simple when it comes to managing my clan. I like your games cause they're more in depth than Total War even though they have better warfare. Thats a compliment. I'm going to go ahead and say it here, since someone will read it... Make a Scottish clans game. They did it in 1999 with the Braveheart game and it was badass, but i know Paradox games and love most of them and you guys could do it way better. Just make it more CK and less Sengoku.

 

[Zangi]

At this point... a 2.
1. Wars tend to be all or nothing affairs, I hear its going to be fixed.
2. AI levy armies march across half of Japan to fight any enemy. This could be alleviated with military access, but if its a design decision, you need something else to curb travelling half of Japan. Doesn't help that so many can be raised so very quickly... levy travels half way across Japan, they get smashed. Don't worry, you can replace that easily. While a smaller enemy has to contend with diminishing forces that'll end up getting overrun in a matter of time due to overwhelming numbers.
3. Plots, the variety... is so very limited. I'd expect to be able to do more, even plot against fellow vassals. Sure, Ninjas could kill them, but then you could kill the next one in line.
4. UI: Is there a search function for people? I mean, putting in their family or first name... to find them quicker. Especially helpful with Ninja stuff.
5. For such a character driven game, people tend to die in an arbitrary fashion. Instead of that, you can tone down the random deaths and add events that could end up getting killing people. Personal feuds and plots between Courtiers... gambits by pretenders to oust the heir. You can intervene, sit-back or actively help one of the parties.
6. Also, vassals trying to 1-up each other... Sure you have ninjas... but... it doesn't have the political intrigue behind it... the Ninjas just work for the monies and all you risk is temporarily losing some of your excess honor... I'd nerf the court honor gain by 1/2 or 3/4... monthly for the rest of your life is... alot. Unless the RNG hates you.

 

[Julyan]

On another note I have noticed major issues with saved games taking forever to load or just crashing the game all together when trying to load them.

The game has the same bug that vanilla DW had. If you resign and reload, some stuff in the save games gets duplicated. Do that enough and it's going to take ages to load a save.
To prevent it, quit the game and start it again when you want to load, don't use the resign button.

 

[Ograv]

Voted 4. First impression: The game is good, but not brilliant, because of the setting I guess. By that I mean it's too focused on war, and too little on the characters and choices. In EU3 I can tailor my nation into a colonizer and trader, a massive land conquering blob or something else. Vicky 2 has the industrializing, and the pops/ideologies to spice things up. CK has more of a character focus. Sengoku has a bit of the latter, but it's mostly just war, and the difference between clans seems to be mainly just which is the bigger. Still, it's a good game, I'm enjoying it a lot, and it seems relatively bug-free

 

[feelotraveller]

I had to go with Average. Don't get me wrong I'm having lots of fun and I think there is a certain potential there. At the moment I don't see makings of an Absolutely Brilliant Game but go ahead prove me wrong. hmy:

I think/hope that with the first patch the game will make Good. The most important improvements/fixes are with the 'kokujin heir bug', the '2 clan bug' and getting plots to function viably. These, plus the sundry other bits and pieces will probably get the game to good.

To get to Very Good is a bigger step, but one that I think is achievable with this game given time. The touchstone here is replayability and the biggest issue, at least currently, is the early game blobbing behaviour. While nothing is wrong with this, in itself, what it leads to is (too) short games and rather monolithic contests after the first few decades. There are always just a few (typically 3 or 4) clans and from there it is a clash of the titans... boring. These clans are mega-stable and it is just a grind and no longer fun. They emerge too frequently, quickly and chances of survival are inordinately high. More generally what is needed is game balance, and that is why I think it will take time - both for tweaking to exact variables and for finding and eliminating exploits.

Absolutely Brilliant will need further fine balancing to ensure fun and variable replayability. But it also needs an intricacy and complexity which I am not seeing in the game at the moment (other than marriage, perhaps). For example, the building options - there is no depth there. Okay there doesn't have to be depth everywhere, but it is lacking in too many places currently. There should be options and synthesis of the pros and cons of different actions in any given situation. Different situations should have neither a unique best action/strategy nor all be resolvable by a one size fits all recipe. I don't see sufficient complexity in this game currently to allow this.

p.s. Please forgive this letter from a harsh critic, as I have said the game is fun.

 

[Kanil]

Very good.

I was expecting a preview of CK2, a character driven game set in Japan. I quickly realized Sengoku is not that, and was at first very disappointed. Given my expectations, the game was merely average, at best.

I thought about for a while longer and then realized the game was never supposed to be a preview of CK2, but rather something much more akin to Diplomacy. A wargame with emphasis on balance of power politics and lots of delightful backstabbing. In this light, Sengoku actually performs very well. It's definitely different than what Paradox usually makes, and it does take some time to adjust to that, but it seems very nice. I'm particularly looking forward to getting my first multiplayer game together, but I'll need some friends for that.

With regards to improvements, the character portion of the game feels pretty irrelevant. Currently I just get my ruler married a few times to ensure succession, but when honor (and thus good relations) becomes harder to get than it currently is, I might care a bit more. It also needs a whole bunch more character/province/non-historical/whatever-you-want-to-call-'em events... or really none at all -- they feel mostly meaningless right now, either make them more impactful or just do away with them and stop interrupting the player with 5 gold, 5 honor, or 25 useless relationship.

 

[celt43]

Im a new user to this type of game... With no tutorial, hard to read hints ( fonts to small & fine in hint box's at 1920x1080)
I find I have stopped playing Sengoku. Sadly.