What do you think about bringing back general ranks and command limits from HOI2?

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coffeelingfine

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Mj Generals can command 1 division
Lt Generals can command 3 divisions
Generals can command 9 divisions

And you could use command power to promote them.

Just curious. Obviously there would have to be way more generals in game than there are right now.
 
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Shaka of Carthage

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Mj Generals can command 1 division
Lt Generals can command 3 divisions
Generals can command 9 divisions

Why? If you want to limit the number of divisions under a General, you can do that yourself. Having to promote them to be able to handle larger limits is just more busy work. Already enough of that in HoI4. And as you said, now more Generals (and portraits) would be needed..

I'm all for having a historically accurate game, but in this case, I think the abstraction/merger of Corp, Army and Army Level groups works to the players advantage.
 
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Hoi4 uses painted portraits so having more generals would probably require an expansion of the art team. A lot of countries rn barely have a unique General and field marshal, which is why the general command limit is fairly generous compared to real life (24 is a pretty big number).

I personally would like theatre generals. Maybe corps sized generals but honestly front line Ai needs more work before we have corps imo
 
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I agree with the concept, I would like more in depth command structure.
For Land, Air and Sea forces.
The whole command structure, and all 1936 Generals starting with 1945 ranks is kind of bogus.
Some sort of "Officer's Academy" that costs PP/CP/XP to produce new Officers (at level 1 or 2) would be good.

Of course, they would need to accelerate the speed Officers could level up from combat.

Maybe with Barbarossa........
 
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Hoi4 uses painted portraits so having more generals would probably require an expansion of the art team. A lot of countries rn barely have a unique General and field marshal, which is why the general command limit is fairly generous compared to real life (24 is a pretty big number).

I personally would like theatre generals. Maybe corps sized generals but honestly front line Ai needs more work before we have corps imo


They could outsource this and have it cost less than if done in house.
 
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Jays298

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The scale is wrong for having so many hierarchies. Plus on a massive linear front that the game has, there is really no difference between divisions, corps, armies, etc. They are all just divisions on a line, and thats probably best for the kind of strategic scale we have.
 
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HugsAndSnuggles

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More division limits = more micro, that adds little to the game. Replacing "levels" with something more immersive might be a good thing, however.
 
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Louella

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They could outsource this

I don't know that that would be a good idea. If we look at the portrait and graphics mods, we can see that there are some artists who can make portraits that are practically indistinguishable from the HOI4 official art team's style. (iirc one of the "Vanilla+" mod artists made Stanley Baldwin portrait that was later adopted officially by Paradox). And there are artists who try, but their portraits or art, doesn't quite match the HOI4 style, and looks a little bit off.
 
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Louella

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My thoughts are complex. On one hand, there are some good reasons to have division-level characters, based on history - the performance of say the 51st Highland Division was notably different depending on who their commanding officer was at the time - they did very well at times, and very badly at others.
On the other hand, when there's a corps level, there's a temptation to make it matter gameplay wise, and you run into the issues of absurd bonus stacking and other things like that.


This is the biggest question. Why ? If you're going to include corps level things, there has to be a good reason why. On medium-sized fronts, it could provide an option for a more granular level of control when drawing battle plans, for example. But on large or small fronts, it's a level of control that doesn't really do much.

I agree with the concept, I would like more in depth command structure.
For Land, Air and Sea forces.
The whole command structure, and all 1936 Generals starting with 1945 ranks is kind of bogus.

Yeah, having people who were colonels in 1936 (Rommel, this means you) as generals or field marshals, is a bit o_O

I've thought before about the ace mechanic for air wings, and how it could be used for something like ship captains for the Navy, to differentiate ships of the same class from one another. As well as divisional characters - like, an infantry division could generate characters that had the "infantry officer" trait, an armour division the "armour officer" traits and so on. And these characters could be promoted all the way up to staff officer positions, i.e. the high command or theorist slots. So that countries that lack armour high command, could create their own, through building themselves a tank corps, and engaging in combat.

For the air force, I think a command level, where you'd assign the air wings to groups, and then assign groups to tasks, would be good, as then it cuts a lot of the micromanagement of having to change air wing assignments manually.

But that's a lot of work.
 
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Yeah, having people who were colonels in 1936 (Rommel, this means you) as generals or field marshals, is a bit o_O

My pet peeve is Patton. He was a Lieutenant Colonel in 1936, a full Colonel in 1938, and a Brigadier General in October of 1940. (The Patton Papers, vol 1 and 2 Martin Blumenson).

Clearly, the current leader set up is very arcade game like, but they need to do it that way since general & admiral levelling up and trait earning is not very good.
 
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Shaka of Carthage

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Clearly, the current leader set up is very arcade game like, but they need to do it that way since general & admiral levelling up and trait earning is not very good.

How about making certain leaders available by a promotion event? Start of the game, no Patton. Oct '40, you'd get an event stating that Patton received a promotion to Brigadier General.

Also, I've never liked the idea that a General could hold an advisor position and a Corp/Army/Army Group command. Perfumed Princes don't hold field commands.
 
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How about making certain leaders available by a promotion event? Start of the game, no Patton. Oct '40, you'd get an event stating that Patton received a promotion to Brigadier General.

Also, I've never liked the idea that a General could hold an advisor position and a Corp/Army/Army Group command. Perfumed Princes don't hold field commands.
That would be a step up IMHO, yet doing events for all the cases (Rommel, Patton, Ike, Monty, etc) might be too much work for PDX and too much clutter in-game.
I did a mod that gives the USA a decision at intervals to add new Gen/Adm according to Date of Rank with increasing numbers added at a variable PP cost tied to Senate Support. It isn't, unfortunately, tied to game status, just DoR as found on the web.

I'm hoping the land warfare re-boot in 1.11 will improve the situation (and not invalidate my mods that have taken lots of time to create).
 
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... and not invalidate my mods that have taken lots of time to create).

Been there, and boy, do I have that t-shirt.
 
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It would be better if they made (some) generals like fighter aces, in that some work better with smaller armies.

So instead of thinking in hierarchies, which are too difficult to manage, we could think in army size.

Right now armies are either best at 24, or 30 if they get the skilled staffer skill. There's no reason to keep them small, or keep some small. Or keep them tied to a location.
 
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coffeelingfine

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Hoi4 uses painted portraits so having more generals would probably require an expansion of the art team. A lot of countries rn barely have a unique General and field marshal, which is why the general command limit is fairly generous compared to real life (24 is a pretty big number).

I personally would like theatre generals. Maybe corps sized generals but honestly front line Ai needs more work before we have corps imo
24 is a big number, that's mostly what inspired this thread. It bugs me that as smaller nations you can put almost your entire army under one general and call it a day
 
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CrasherZZ

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This is an old topic that keeps resurfacing from time to time. In HOI3 there was a very nice hierarchical command system with generals at division, corps, army, and army group levels with specific traits too. It was deemed to be too much detailed micromanaging for a grand strategy game like HOI4. To bring back that command hierarchy would actually mean creating a new game or a series of new games - one for each theatre of the war. Pacific, Eastern Front Western Front, Mediterranean, Asia, etc. Those games could expose more historical details such as the careers of specific officers, or specific divisions, brigades, and regiments, plus railroads and roads, among other things. But HOI4 already has too much detail and micromanagement for that.
 
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The current system is definetly too simplistic. The argument "more layered command structure equals more micro" is wrong. People spend time microing divisions as it is. It would only help them to have a more layered structure where divisions are grouped in 2s and 3s within an army.

A general for each division might be too much however. A number of countries can realistically end up with 300+ divisions in every game. Most of them would have to suffer penalties for not having a general, which means either the penalty will have to be very mild, or number of generals will have to be huge.
 
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Louella

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