What kind of mechanics do you think would make it work? How far east do you think it will go? And, if given the opportunity, would you want to play in china or mongolia and the like?
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What do you think about a pretty much inevitable eastern map expansion?
- Thread starter Coolmenrule
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There's been a few threads about this before but I think China will happen. Not sure about Japan. I'd personally love to play as the Song dynasty and fight back against Kublai Khan. There will probably be some Imperial gov mechanic that will impact the Abbasid and Byzantine Empires as well. If they ever add regencies there will probably be a way to create a "Puppet Emperor" as a strong General. This happened a few times in Chinese history. As far as the Mongols yeah that would be interesting once they add a nomad mechanic.
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Unlikely. China is too technologically advanced, rich, populous, centralized, and most importantly large for this time period to put into the game.
This is a massive curb stomping blob problem especially with how ridiculously easy it is for even the AI to keep large blobs stable. If we made internal management more challenging, to keep the emperor busy with internal strife rather than outward expansion, sure. Maybe.
And without China it's difficult to move too deeply into its sphere of influence.
This is a massive curb stomping blob problem especially with how ridiculously easy it is for even the AI to keep large blobs stable. If we made internal management more challenging, to keep the emperor busy with internal strife rather than outward expansion, sure. Maybe.
And without China it's difficult to move too deeply into its sphere of influence.
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For China to work, they need to model the Steppes such that it provides a legitimate barrier to agricultural civilizations (whether something like China from the East or Poland from the West) dominating the grassland as though owning a ton of grass was somehow feasible and beneficial to them.
If interactions with China from the West are primarily indirect through nomads, then I think it could be cool.
If interactions with China from the West are primarily indirect through nomads, then I think it could be cool.
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Considering how much space the map has going eastward in the files, I'd say they could feasibly shove nearly every single inch of East Asia into CK3, from Hokkaido to at least Java and everything in between.
I would hope that they aren't going to do it very soon though; if they want to have China and many of the other states, there has to be an actually comprehensive attempt at developing an imperial form of government. That is the bare minimum for Asia to actually make sense. Even examples of Asian "feudalism," such as post-Heian Japan, need some measure of difference to make it stand out from European feudalism.
I don't think Asia is in the works just yet, and I hope it isn't. There's still so much stuff that needs attention in the game right now that adding even more will only hamper the game.
I would hope that they aren't going to do it very soon though; if they want to have China and many of the other states, there has to be an actually comprehensive attempt at developing an imperial form of government. That is the bare minimum for Asia to actually make sense. Even examples of Asian "feudalism," such as post-Heian Japan, need some measure of difference to make it stand out from European feudalism.
I don't think Asia is in the works just yet, and I hope it isn't. There's still so much stuff that needs attention in the game right now that adding even more will only hamper the game.
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In 867 Tang Dynasty was one coup away from disintegration
In 1066, Song never mustered the power to defeat the Tanguts and Khitans in the north
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It was bad enough seeing China make the entire Abbasid Empire its protectorate in Jade Dragon, or having Ming reach the Caspian in EU4. I think China is probably coming to CK3, but I'm dreading it.
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And in 867 the Abbasids are on the verge of collapse and civil war, but they are still perfectly fine and strong in CK3. At least the 1066 HRE does tend to lose a few vassals to civil war (even if they are generally the wrong ones), which is an improvement over its CK2 incarnation. CK, like all Paradox games, is very bad at handling large blobs and making them not be extremely over-powered by virtue of their size. The only examples I can think of use scripted events to railroad the process (such as how Imperator handles some of the Diadochi, or how 1066 Byzantium is facing a major invasion of Armenia), and even those tend to be only somewhat successful (for instance, the Antigonids and Byzantines may lose some territory but are still generally the strongest states around after the initial event wars have finished). I dread that we will have a situation where the supposedly on its death bed Tang are always stable, never collapse, and inevitably conquer Asia.
More broadly, Paradox has never done a good job of representing China in any of their games, and I'm skeptical they'll be able to pull it off this time. Certainly I hope they spend a long time developing all the areas already on the map first.
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while i agree in principal, it being better to have the mechanics in before the content
in practice, this just means imperial government will be designed specifically for the one region thats already in, and shoehorn china into it; rather than making a broader system that can work for both, because china isnt in yet
not to mention, any map-effecting expansion like trade routes/silk road, etc, would benefit more from china already being on the map; else again like in CK2, would likely see a bunch of shortcuts to get the new land "working" (i can see trade routes put in using placeholder events for an offmap china, and then a china getting added in that has no control over the trade routes, just the same or even less "offmap china" events about the routes)
i guess in short im trying to say; id rather have the map finished first, but if we absolutely need the mechanics, id rather they be in the same expansion
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For regions in South-East Asia (including the existent Burma), they should add a Mandala government to reflect how polities were organized there.
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One thing I've always wondered: how would the Mongol invasion work if all of Mongolia is on-map? Does Temujin just usurp some poor sucker's title or what?
They could just make China much weaker than it was historically. That would be the easy way to do it, and it's not like the game is that historically faithful to everything else.
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China is awesome, but I think I might prefer if they focused on making Africa, Europe, and India more unique. The map is pretty big and I wouldn't say the different cultures are *terribly* samey ... but they could benefit from being a little more unique. I'd rather have the existing areas be really well developed and authentic than get an expansion that adds China, but China is basically just feudal France reskinned
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The Tianxia mod for CK2 not only includes China and enough of the Pacific to include Japan, Indonesia and the Philippines, but government and religion and events to make that segment of the map more complete. Been a while since I had the Mongols show up on it, but since I was playing Jurchens so I kinda didn't have room for them
Would have been a massive death stack spawning in to start invading in the proper area to spread through, ended up doomstack surrounded by my doomstacks.Naturally I recommend the mod.
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i imagine (hope) if/when china comes it will come with more internal empire mechanics to make holding a large empire a much more difficult task
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The files indicate that China is at least on the mind of the Devs at Paradox.
This is a pretty obvious hint. Anyways I am more interested in South East Asia then China proper(though China would be fun I imagine).
Still IMO the road to China begins with a lot of things that are needed in the current map as well.
This is a pretty obvious hint. Anyways I am more interested in South East Asia then China proper(though China would be fun I imagine).
Still IMO the road to China begins with a lot of things that are needed in the current map as well.
- We need trade and merchant republics for the map and a better economic system. Well the silk roads began in China and trade was important for south east asia along the maritime Silk Road.
- Nomads need a major improvement and Nomads were important for both west and east.
- We need a bureaucratic imperial system for the Byzantines, as well as other imperial realms at the start date like the Caliphate and the Pala Empire. This could be the base framework for a Chinese imperial system can be built off of.
- We need improved religious mechanics in general, which IMO would include proper representation of various different types of monastic and sufi orders. Well they are needed eastward for the Buddhist orders of Mahayana Buddhism to have the pure land, Chan/Zen sects.
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