What do you feel is the worst idea group in 1.8?

[TheSoDeM]

I'd say espionage as unless you playing in a particular style that depends on the sort of thing it does n't really come in much use in my experience. That said it can also be very situational, for example naval and maritime are practically worthless to (almost) purely land based empires like Poland/Lithuania/Commonwealth or Russia or Austria or a few others.
I don't tend to use administrative or expansionist ideas much so I can't really say about those.

Also it can vary a little between SP and MP

 

[Empreorpoef]

economics - simply not worth the admin tbh. its good for some policies (i dont like policies) and events...
naval - lol. your armada is all about size, not quality.
quality - would like this better if it didnt have some really terrible things (naval morale, recovery naval morale, naval attrition...)
espionage - well...

 

[pgroves]

Espionage actually seems a little better than it was, due to the new rebel mechanics, but it's more useful in some regions than others (e.g against Russia, if they've subjugated lots of vassals etc.)

 

[CaptainChiatrol]

Espionage actually seems a little better than it was, due to the new rebel mechanics, but it's more useful in some regions than others (e.g against Russia, if they've subjugated lots of vassals etc.)

I left dipos on a county with sow discontent to years at max price and a 100% bonus to rebel chance using a policy and the finished espionage tree and I never saw results.

There is a whole other topic on support rebels only being good for getting PP.

I think I'm the only one who likes damage reputation though since I have no other way I know of to do damage to someone's relationship to another nation when trying to separate allies from a war before I declare one.

 

[-Malovane-]

Espionage can be quite effective, if you learn how to use it right. I was having a ball with it playing as an HRE minor.

Sabotage reputation can make the difference between everyone loving an expansive Austrian emperor, or being in a mass coalition against them. Pop a sow discontent on a country that is ethnically or religiously diverse (Commonwealth for example)... during a war. Drive their war exhaustion to 20, and their stability will drop to -3. It's going to be a pain for them to recover with the +50% cost (especially if they're religiously diverse), and when they do, they'll be a shadow of their former selves with all the rebels popping everywhere (which you want to support for new vassals). There's often no need to take territory directly, so you can show superiority for massive power projection gains (which increases again with rebel support), and have zero aggressive expansion.

I do wish espionage in the game was a little bit more in-depth. Perhaps some DLC would be warranted - but I wouldn't say espionage is useless in the current state.

 

[Krajzen]

Espionage can be quite effective, if you learn how to use it right. I was having a ball with it playing as an HRE minor.

Sabotage reputation can make the difference between everyone loving an expansive Austrian emperor, or being in a mass coalition against them. Pop a sow discontent on a country that is ethnically or religiously diverse (Commonwealth for example)... during a war. Drive their war exhaustion to 20, and their stability will drop to -3. It's going to be a pain for them to recover with the +50% cost (especially if they're religiously diverse), and when they do, they'll be a shadow of their former selves with all the rebels popping everywhere (which you want to support for new vassals). There's often no need to take territory directly, so you can show superiority for massive power projection gains (which increases again with rebel support), and have zero aggressive expansion.

I do wish espionage in the game was a little bit more in-depth. Perhaps some DLC would be warranted - but I wouldn't say espionage is useless in the current state.

In theory that all sounds cute but in practice situations when you can really do significant damage with spies which couldn't be done with other means are really rare.

When I need diplo points for diplo annexation, or trade stuff, or Diplomatic/Trade/Exploration ideas, well, Espionage is really low priority.



I think espionage should be greatly expanded. Allow us on
- killing heirs, generals, advisors
- sabotaging diplo relations of target country with another countries
- show bar 'how much rebel progress is going to rise' when I am supporting rebels
- decreasing stability
- offering enemy mercenaries 2x higher payment to make them leave enemy army and join closest army belonging to you
- damaging ships
- increasing inflation [this effect would have to be great to cause difference]
- sabotaging enemy forts, allowing on winning sieges quicker
- 'double - agent' option where your agent joins enemy army and decreases its morale/slows down its movement speed
- sabotaging enemy trade in nodes
- slowing down coring, diploannexation, westernization
- just freakin' stealing money
- converting provinces to your faith


Etc.

See? There are so many interesting possibilities. I don't think all of them would be impossible to balance.

 

[slv]

- killing heirs, generals, advisors

Allow us to kill our own heirs and rulers.

Maybe just tie the privateering to Espionage. Bur sure, Espionage is rather underwhelming now.

 

[Fionnix]

Allow us to kill our own heirs and rulers.

Maybe just tie the privateering to Espionage. Bur sure, Espionage is rather underwhelming now.

tbh i wouldn't want to kill other countries rulers or heirs if i could kill my own.

 

[Dai-Oma]

Which ideas suck mostly depends on your country and playstyle.
Russia has a large manpowerbase, so it would suffer from Administrative, which focuses mainly on mercenaries;
Humanist is pretty worthless on homogenous (cultural and religionwise) countries;
Martime and Naval is useless when you're landlocked;

Espionage however needs a buff and more options and it could be a new focus on the next expansions.