THE-Black-Knight

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Just make everything optional, that's the key. Don't need to put a million things in the game, just make everything in it optional and easy to fine tune. (Also put Dark Elves in the game this time!!)
 

THE-Black-Knight

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To be honest, I only care about the cam

To be honest, I only care about the campaign...
Yeah, clicking constantly hoping that finally two half developed characters stop talking to each other so that you can start playin... Yawn. (As a filmmaker I can tell you that dialogue doesn't develop character, action does. But I am actually speaking more about Planetfall right now, I don't even think I ever started the AOWIII campaign)
 

THE-Black-Knight

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Of course when the Dark Elves cast their spell of flowers, the world slowly becomes covered with black and purple flowers and slowly poisoned by them. A sort of death so beautiful that can't exist in the real world. At that point everyone with some reason left would stop fighting each other and turn against the DEs but it would be too late. But the DEs would also have poisonous flowers of all kinds that they could deploy from the begnning of the game... and black towers that are invisible unless you approach them from very close. that's AOW IV the way I see it. Dark Elves and their slaves that's all I see.
 

Fonzosh

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Now after playing 200 hours of Planetfall I have some more ideas about AoW IV.
First and foremost, dont change much, add things! (for example tigrans, Drows, merfolk aso). I want almost the same game as nr III since it was a beauty. The changes I would like to see is the following.

1. More destroyable object, both on the strategic map and the battle map. Use some of the good ideas from Planetfall with hazards, blowing up objects and so on.
2. Allow 5 specialization slots. In III you could only have 3 specialization slots and it felt a little. At least let the player be able to be master in 2,
3. Allow the units to equip some magical objects that suits the unit. In AoW I often had hordes of magical objets that I just sold (especially on huge maps). Instead you can make it so that for example an infantry unit could have an armor, sword and shield slot available and for example a dragon could have a ring slot available.
4. More units with evolve. Since this can unbalance the game if connected to a certain race, let it only be with neutral settlements. From the AoW III i loved the feathered serpent and convinced a good steam modder to make an Elder Feathered Serpent.
5. Let independant cities be able to upgrade with the surrounding objects.
6. Let the builder be more of a factor. Maybe allow it to build Lumber mills (for production) small farm (for growth) aso.
8. Let all specialization have a tier 4 summon creature. As it is now, players allways choose the mastery after which specialization has a tier 4 summon since it is the strongest build. Maybe and Elder fire elemental or something?
9. Let there be height for ranged units on the combat map. If your unit stands on a small hill, it can actually shoot longer.
10. Allow the UI for more than 10 combat abilities. It is so frustrating that as soon as you have to many abilities it creates a problem.
11. Allow for small combat spells to be cast and attack. Maybe have a skill connected to the hero. As it is now, you never use the small combat spells since your hero to more damage with normal attacks anyway. Why sacrifice mana and a turn to do less damage?

12. A more usable forge. Allow the tech tree to unlock certain forge abilities.
13. Take a good look at the modding community on steam. If there is one place to get ideas its there, since when the players feel something is missing, some good modders make it into a mod.
 

BeltarTheLion

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Mar 29, 2020
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They remember about Shadow World in AoW SM and remake it but it doesn't mean that it's good idea or people love it. Personally for me the absence of imbalanced shadow and lozal Zergs with Protosses in AoW is a serious advantage. If there were not Shadow Magic but whatever else magic fans would remake that.

Why sacrifice mana and a turn to do less damage?

This is one of the reasons why mana doesn't have much value on random maps. There's a lot of good damage improving enchantments including small ones like Star Blades but they're not very appealing if you can just shoot. Protection spells like Bless, Healing and etc. will be always usefull. And if you've more than one hero in the battle only one can cast a spell each turn.

As it is now, players allways choose the mastery after which specialization has a tier 4 summon since it is the strongest build.

Total bullshit. In later game the cast queue is always full with casting something important or disunctioning something unpleasant to add there unit summon. I understand that in 500 turns long game with Big Palace in every one of 158 cities and 100500 cast points this can be usefull but I like to play with 2 Keepers spheres not because of Angel summon. It just is not very important when it becomes available the game is near finished. The longest game I ever had was 164 turns long (Dragon Throne scenario with it's complex landscape) and I actually fifnished it by killing 2 last enemies in the capitals on 163th and 164th turns.

Let there be height for ranged units on the combat map.

There's height in Planetfall but I can't say that I like it because it's often hard to understand where unit can move because of height differences.
 

Goemoe

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Jul 25, 2018
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Let all specialization have a tier 4 summon creature. As it is now, players allways choose the mastery after which specialization has a tier 4 summon since it is the strongest build.
At least in multiplayer games It isn't. Those lvl 4 summons are only seldom used in games, because they appear in your list only shortly before the game is finished. Lvl 4 summons (other than class related) are gained from crypts/libraries or they don't even see the end of the game in most rounds.
Allow the UI for more than 10 combat abilities. It is so frustrating that as soon as you have to many abilities it creates a problem.
You do know, that you can use all abilities no matter how many of them your hero knows? Just open up its overview with clicking on its face and click on the ability you want to use. I agree it would be easier not to have to do this, but it is rarely the case anyway.
As it is now, you never use the small combat spells since your hero to more damage with normal attacks anyway. Why sacrifice mana and a turn to do less damage?
Eh... no. There are uses for all of the spells given the circumstances. If your hero does more with direct attacks, use them, if not use the spells. They are options nothing more. There is no need to mix magic with martial attacks within the same turn. Heroes are more than powerful enough as they are.
 

THE-Black-Knight

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I believe that Planetfall failed regarding several things. First of all it is supposed to be a SCi-Fi title but it's about units merrily walking around on planets, where they appear to be able to breathe and interact with enemies like they would on Earth. Planetfall was basically a fantasy game with a generic 'space' setting that doesn't work too well and doesn't feel sci-fi at all. It's worst defect is that it completely misses the part where the player interacts with the environment and find things never seen before (a random unit creator for aliens maybe instead than having the same ones over and over in every game?). The simple fact that roads build themselves everywhere and there is no organic interaction with nature shows the terrible direction the franchise could end up taking also for the regular fantasy series. Please developers do not go that way. A fantasy/medieval game is something where units must create their environment and discover a new unexplored world (wella a sci-fi should be like that too but it's too late for that). I want to build roads, I want to discover things I have never seen every time! If at the beginning of a game a leader can be randomly created, enemy races can too and that would be so much more interesting than just adding glasses or hats to a leader.
 

THE-Black-Knight

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I believe that Planetfall failed regarding several things. First of all it is supposed to be a SCi-Fi title but it's about units merrily walking around on planets, where they appear to be able to breathe and interact with enemies like they would on Earth. Planetfall was basically a fantasy game with a generic 'space' setting that doesn't work too well and doesn't feel sci-fi at all. It's worst defect is that it completely misses the part where the player interacts with the environment and find things never seen before (a random unit creator for aliens maybe instead than having the same ones over and over in every game?). The simple fact that roads build themselves everywhere and there is no organic interaction with nature shows the terrible direction the franchise could end up taking also for the regular fantasy series. Please developers do not go that way. A fantasy/medieval game is something where units must create their society and structures and discover a new unexplored world (well a sci-fi should be like that too but it's too late for that). I want to build roads, I want to discover things I have never seen before, every time I play! If at the beginning of a game a leader can be randomly created, enemy races can too and that would be so much more interesting than just adding glasses or hats to a leader. Heroes should be created randomly, like enemies and as many things as possible.
 

BeltarTheLion

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Mar 29, 2020
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I don't think Planetfall failed and it's not Sci-fi it's cosmic fantasy. And in fact it has excellent setting with attempts to transfer traditional AoW races in space settings.

I never demand from a game to have some mechanics or have not. And that's why I don't consider pretesions like "I could cast global unit enchantments in AoW2 but I can't do that in AoW3. Bad game!!!!" valid. But Planetfall being not bad game at all has it's own very speciefic problems:

1) It has no custom maps. And RMG is not enough. In fact before all DLCs every generated map looked the very same. Even AoW3 with it's water zones provided more structure. DLCs added some variations but this don't solve the problems. And while AoW3 had some custom maps with the game and now there're 139 custom maps in Steam workshop. Planetfall has nothing at all only RMG. And that's my first wishes. The game must be shipped with custom maps and RMG should have more options f. e. I want to have a regulation of how players will be placed. In AoW3 and Planetfall teams are always groupped but it's bad decision for 1 human vs teamed AIs. And I don't expect that competitive AI which can provide a challenge in 1 vs 1 game will appear in the next years. And I want RMG templates f. e. "teams divided by a river", "Central high value cluster", "X Humans vs huge AI empire" (in fact Planetfall has something like this) "Starting big empires of N cities" and etc. I'm not fan of HOMM but AFAIK even HOMM 3 has templates for RMG.

2) Cosmite as a extra rare resource which limited ability to build high level units and upgrade them was good idea. But AI builds very few T3 units so in AoW3 player could face T4 units while having no ones here it's normal to have T3 armies and AI still sends hordes of bees, archers, and other T1-2 trash that dies from the one burst from Baron or laser tank.

3) While defending cities AI just runs forward so the player should only stay outside defence canons' range. Which ruins the whole city attack battles. In AoW3 AI at least understands to rely on long range units which have a wall as a high ground and attack without huge advantage can be hard.

4) Precise population control works while you have just few cities but it's necessary for effictive playing so everybody turns off auto on the 1st turn and assignes all colonists to food and etc. When you have 10 cities this thing becomes annoying. I guess it was taken from Civiliztion like ruined diplomacy (WHY it was needed?? Anyway everybody plays with fixed teams) but as I understand there're less settlements in Civilization.

One combat-related thing that was improved in Planetfall AI keeps ti's armies groupped in all prev. games it could be easilly catched off-guard. But because AI in Planetfall doesn't produce a lot of high level units it's armies are not compact and the player with T3-armies can always kill then part by part.

Veteran system in Planetfall sucks. It's castrated and boring. It's questionable if AoW3 should have infinite championship levels (very few starting units can reach very high ranks) but it provided interesting features on elite rank for many units while Planetfall usually gives HP and precision. +1 Range for Vanguard's laser tank on elite is something outstanding.

I don't talk about PvP because with it's mechanics of big armies and a lot of battles (especially AoW3) AoW always will be a game for long playing.
 

THE-Black-Knight

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I don't think Planetfall failed and it's not Sci-fi it's cosmic fantasy. And in fact it has excellent setting with attempts to transfer traditional AoW races in space settings.

I never demand from a game to have some mechanics or have not. And that's why I don't consider pretesions like "I could cast global unit enchantments in AoW2 but I can't do that in AoW3. Bad game!!!!" valid. But Planetfall being not bad game at all has it's own very speciefic problems:

1) It has no custom maps. And RMG is not enough. In fact before all DLCs every generated map looked the very same. Even AoW3 with it's water zones provided more structure. DLCs added some variations but this don't solve the problems. And while AoW3 had some custom maps with the game and now there're 139 custom maps in Steam workshop. Planetfall has nothing at all only RMG. And that's my first wishes. The game must be shipped with custom maps and RMG should have more options f. e. I want to have a regulation of how players will be placed. In AoW3 and Planetfall teams are always groupped but it's bad decision for 1 human vs teamed AIs. And I don't expect that competitive AI which can provide a challenge in 1 vs 1 game will appear in the next years. And I want RMG templates f. e. "teams divided by a river", "Central high value cluster", "X Humans vs huge AI empire" (in fact Planetfall has something like this) "Starting big empires of N cities" and etc. I'm not fan of HOMM but AFAIK even HOMM 3 has templates for RMG.

2) Cosmite as a extra rare resource which limited ability to build high level units and upgrade them was good idea. But AI builds very few T3 units so in AoW3 player could face T4 units while having no ones here it's normal to have T3 armies and AI still sends hordes of bees, archers, and other T1-2 trash that dies from the one burst from Baron or laser tank.

3) While defending cities AI just runs forward so the player should only stay outside defence canons' range. Which ruins the whole city attack battles. In AoW3 AI at least understands to rely on long range units which have a wall as a high ground and attack without huge advantage can be hard.

4) Precise population control works while you have just few cities but it's necessary for effictive playing so everybody turns off auto on the 1st turn and assignes all colonists to food and etc. When you have 10 cities this thing becomes annoying. I guess it was taken from Civiliztion like ruined diplomacy (WHY it was needed?? Anyway everybody plays with fixed teams) but as I understand there're less settlements in Civilization.

One combat-related thing that was improved in Planetfall AI keeps ti's armies groupped in all prev. games it could be easilly catched off-guard. But because AI in Planetfall doesn't produce a lot of high level units it's armies are not compact and the player with T3-armies can always kill then part by part.

Veteran system in Planetfall sucks. It's castrated and boring. It's questionable if AoW3 should have infinite championship levels (very few starting units can reach very high ranks) but it provided interesting features on elite rank for many units while Planetfall usually gives HP and precision. +1 Range for Vanguard's laser tank on elite is something outstanding.

I don't talk about PvP because with it's mechanics of big armies and a lot of battles (especially AoW3) AoW always will be a game for long playing.
OK I didn't mean to imply that Planetfall is a complete failure. Certain things I like, for example the battle system is fun. Still to me the strategic map feels cold and uninteresting. The fact that you can't really interact with it by building cities and roads wherever you like, takes away from realism and immersion. Sure, the fact that a player ends up with regions instead than simply an area of influence around a city is fine; but if that means that I can only build a city in the center of any given region then I feel that I am losing a strategic option in favor of what is only an esthetic gimmick. Maybe the right compromise would be if players could build cities wherever they liked inside a region in order to claim it (with a fixed minimum distance between them).
 
Last edited:

Damkac

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Jun 8, 2018
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What ideas do you have to make each class plays more unique?
(Sure I want races to be more unique too. But in every game you gets many cities of different races but can only have one class so classes are better place to put more interesting gameplay mechanics)

Theocrat should choose the deity he worship, each with different bonuses. Maybe have unique resource used for his abilities (faith) depend on the number of his followers? Focus on conventing both enemy units in battles and population of other cities. Or if you want something really unique: theocrat can only have one "holy city" and can't build or absorb any other. But cities that adopted his religion acts like vasals. Would be very hard to balance but could be really interesting.
Archdruid focus even more on catching and evolving poke.... I mean animals.
Warlord definitely should have unique resource like "command" or "honor" or something, earned by fighting. Spending mana to use his abilities don't make much sense. He could turn his units into elite version, where they gets improved stats and become +1 tier unit. Warlord don't have any 4th tier units but could turn any 3rd tier into 4th tier.
Drednought shouldn't spend mana to use his abilities. Just like with warlord this makes no sense. Maybe just use gold? Or go in different direction and make this class using magitek machines instead of steampunk. And give steam tanks, canons etc to races like dwarves or humans.
Not many ideas for Sorc, Necro or Rogue (other than installing spies in enemy cities by the last one).

And what new classes we could have? Diplomat? Something economy-based? I think it would work better as perks than classes. Maybe alchemist? Or something related to the Shadow World?