What do you expect for a future Paradox non-sequel game?

[eduhum]

A few ideas:


-There's been talk in the past of making a high fantasy themed game a la paradox, and i would guess (or hope), with procedurally generated maps of continents, and a big classic style map editor. Maybe this kind of a game would be also designed in mind as a support for D&D parties. I would hope that they transcend the use of provinces in such case, creating tools for modelling completely dynamic borders and areas of influence. In general, imho the future of strategy games will deal with creating maps without fixed provincial borders, that are also able to not resemble an rts.

-Given the fact that Podcat has been redeployed to a new project, we could expect a new WW1 HoI4 inspired game, but with a brand new feature: no provinces, and trench warfare ebbing and flowing on a realistic 3D map, along with HoI4 mechanics like tech research, logistics, politics, construction, etc

-They could try to make a segway into e-sports with a fast paced grand strategy game, maybe creating a formula of a game with abstract and low polygon aesthetics, big and 3D intricate relief maps, units as dots going around the map and gameplay centered around conquering many small pieces of territory and strategic locations between valleys and mountains.

-They could easily try to remake their early version of the classic Diplomacy tabletop/correspondence game, and try to market it as a popular, casual alternative to Risk (global domination version which is the official port to the electronic medium and the smartphone market).

-I don't think they will make a Cold War game nor a Dark ages game, it makes little sense in gameplay terms. But there is space for making a China focused CK3 inspired game, which would cover from central asia and siberia, to japan, to vietnam and tibet, and probably nations up to java as dlc, the main focus being by far trying to model how the chinese civilization operated, perhaps exploring mechanisms of dynamic stats that can spiral out of control for the player, creating cyclical models for prosperity and decadence, instead of creating a game based on perpetual expansion and map painting.

-I also don't think they will try to make a game that serves as a sequel to both CK, EU and Victoria at the same time. Such a game would probably need to be made starting from prehistory. There could be some kind of project for a game that tries to get a grip on the general progression of civilization, but it would have to be a giant project, lengthier in time to make than the Warhammer Total war saga, and probably there would be a constant struggle of trying to advance to the next age versus deepening the complexity of the gameplay of the early ages.

-Maybe it's not finantially feasable, but maybe paradox could start trying to make their own 'Saga' brand like total war, like making games like the pelopponesian war, the mayan inter-city state wars, the 40 years wars, the reconquista, but also remaking sengoku and rise of the eagles, etc


I don't any more ideas or speculations. Thoughts?

 

[C.N.]

- I expect a PDX fantasy game is seriously in the planning stage. As for procedurally generated maps, I'm more skeptical. They tend to suck, and EU 4: Conquest of Paradise suffered due to that.

- I don't expect a WWI game. First because the market for one is quite small, second because it intrudes on the Vicky 3 endgame. I consider a Cold War game more likely than a WWI one.

- There is a trying to make a game for e-sports tend to fail. Paradox already got burned in that kind of chase by the failed Magicka MOBA, so I think it's unlikely they try again.

- Diplomacy? Well, their version wasn't really a success, and they don't own the IP itself. On the other hand, I wouldn't totally exclude the idea of a game like that. More likely being the publisher rather than the developer, or at least by a more mobile focused studio rather PDS.

- I agree that Dark Ages is unlikely after Rome failed. Cold War, well, they did have some ideas in a discussion at the PDX-con in Berlin, so I wouldn't exclude that one. As for an East Asia game, it's a poorly kept secret that CK 3 is prepared for a map expansion eastward. As a standalone, Three Kingdoms is really the only thing that would make sense.

- I agree that a mega-game is unlikely, especially since the PDX game that would have been closest to the early game, Imperator: Rome, flopped.

- I think that a 'Saga-brand' game series is unlikely. Would only generate badwill among fans.

My top 3 most likely secret PDX non-sequel grand strategy in development:
1. Fantasy
2. Cold War
3. Colonize a new planet GS, inspired by Alpha Centauri.
Why?
- Single war games, that aren't WWII tend to be failures. Same with regional games.
- After Imperator: Rome, I think that a game set before CK 3 in time is very unlikely.
- Modern day is just toxic, and would drag real world politics into it.
- Fantasy and Cold War are very much requested.
- There has not been a real successful modern Alpha Centauri type game.

 

[Hazes4ever]

Cold War is my number 1 request.

Some other things I'd like to see;
- Hearts of Iron style game focused on the Napoleonic Era;
- Trading game set during 16th/17th century where you try to build a global trading empire like East India Company or Port Royale for those that know these games.
- Business management game in grand strategy style. Where you guide a large multinational company like Coca Cola, Merck, Philip Morris or Shell for example through the 20th century, amending your strategy based on the political climate etc, establishing lobbies with governments, negotiating treaties etc.

 

[Susanna]

I think a fantasy GSG is my top request. If it leans closer to CK than the other franchises, that would be good.

 

[AppoX]

I'm actually somewhat of a weirdo since I liked MotE, and still play it occasionally,(thinking about it, I'm going to play a game after writing this post) its a really fun casual GSG for short sessions and this is why I'd love a French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars game March of the Eagles 2 essentially, but given enough focus and attention the period deserves(not a low budget side-game MoTE clearly ended up being). For one it should have the whole world rather than just Europe - I feel like limiting the map to just Europe really hurt the game, Napoleonic wars were quite global and giving the player more choice of nations would greatly boost replayability - since a game can be finished in one session, since right now if you play the game 8 times you've basically played everything interesting. The land army/warfare system from MotE could just be copied and pasted (since its great), but everything else from that game should've been changed. I didn't really need Victoria 2 level economics, or Crusader Kings internal management but something better than the weird building system and lack of rebellions should've been present.

Hell I think Focus Trees ala HoI4 could work great in such a game. Even though the feature has a lot of problems, it does ensure a lot of replayability and it is why I keep returning to HoI4 in a way I never did to HoI3(basically a GSG with a story system). Anyways if they make an attempt at the French Revolutionary wars time period again I believe they would not use the MoTE name(nor its mechanics) so it wouldn't exactly be a sequel.

Though I'd love a French Revolutionary wars game I'd also love a Cold War GSG. I was really saddened by them cancelling East vs West, it was a game I was the most hyped for in years. A fantasy GSG could be great too but it depends on the Fantasy Universe they choose or if they go with their own or procedurally generated, could be a great hit or a great failure I feel.

Lastly I actually think a fantasy GSG is in development - since PDX was hiring people for an un-announced non-historical grand strategy game - which all but confirms it in my book.

 

[Aldwoni]

I hope they will make an Fantasy Grand Strategy game.

EU seems to me like the base of grand strategy games.

CK is more focused on the humans
HOI is more focused on the warfare
VIC seems to be more focused on economics.

IR I don't know what the focus was, might this been the reason it didn't found it's own audience?

Some options for a fantasy themed GSG:
- multiple layers. Like having countries underground, or in the sky or both.
- asymmetric options. Like having different military units based on the races in your country. Or different technology or buildings.
- or having different options in diplomacy when you deal with a country from the same fantasy race compared to a different fantasy race.

 

[klopkr]

I think they should try and make their own sims like game following CK3 as a basis.

 

[Arcvalons]

If they made a fantasy game I suspect it would be more like Civilization than Europa Universalis, if Stellaris is anything to go by.

I myself would greatly prefer a Cold War game.

 

[captainroot]

A Cold War GSG with unique features inspired by and underlining the game's period, one of them being the rapid changes the entire world goes through from 1946 to 1991 affecting gameplay and providing new challenges and opportunities whenever a new decade of a campaign begins.

 

[Dior Eluchil]

I expect it to not use the worst ever launcher possibly conceived.

 

[lukaslunt]

A geopolitical simulator game. The ultimate infinitely moddable political simulation game.

 

[pthooie]

high fantasy themed game

I look forward to seeing arguments about whether mana is mana.

 

[ero_sk]

I don't really expect any game in particular simply because I don't have any insights. But I definitely hope for a cold war and/or modern day GSG. With good economy and diplomacy simulation, as well as a military/warfare system that would fit the time period. Not only do I hope for it because I'd love to play such a game, but also because "I've seen it all" and as much as I love Paradox games it sort of reached the point where only something new would make me interested. Right now I'm waiting for V3, specifically because with its mechanics it's so close to the 20th century style. And even though EU4 is currently my favourite Paradox game, I don't think I would be excited for EU5. Something completely fresh and ambitious is what we need, and cold war era GSG game (or more specifically- 20th century) is what would make me excited again.

 

[uleslaw]

i really think there is a good chance Podcas is already involved in design/production of Cold War GSG.

 

[ero_sk]

@uleslaw can you elaborate a bit? What makes you think this?

 

[uleslaw]

well, Podcat announced that he abandoned HOI4 and took over another project. What project could it be?

- HOI5 is unlikely - since HOI4 has been massively redesigned with latest expansion
- i do not believe that after the WW2 war game he would be interested in designing a fantasy GSG or game set in antiquity. I think he just likes tanks and planes more than swords and dragons
- he already designed a (very basic) espionage system for HOI4 and learned some lessons on how to improve it
- Paradox knows that a lot of customers expect Cold War GSG - and that there was a lot of disappointment after their former project set in that timeframe was canceled.
- he could perhaps borrow some ideas from Victoria 3 systems, which seems excellently designed and to some extent fit also the modern era
- designing a cold war game is probably very challenging - and both Podcat and the entire Pdx know that it could be a big deal to prove that they are capable of doing that. it could be beneficial for their both income and public image.

i could be obviously wrong, although cold war GSG seems to be a reasonable guess

 

[Jia Xu]

A game bridging Imperator and CK3 would be the path of least resistance, IMO.

The rise of Christianity (arguably the most impactful event in human history). The split of the Roman Empire into east and west. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms in China leading into unification, leading into civil war, leading into unification, leading into civil war. The Sassanian Empire in Persia. And all kinds of other fun and interesting stuff. There's definitely a full game in there.

But the developers need to find a way to make it its own game. Imperator flunked because it was EU4 with no content + POPs. A new game shouldn't be just a lesser version of some existing PDS strategy game. There needs to be a leading gimmick in there that makes it truly distinct.

 

[Kovax]

I'd love to see a not-too-distant-future sci-fi game, set in something like 2100, with reasonably plausible future-tech. Basically, not a sci-fi as giant stompy robots, but more advanced than just up-gunned modern tanks and planes. It could be a slightly post-apocalyptic setting, or an actual nuclear apocalypse, complete with fallout and global weather effects. It would be amusing to see just how bad an idea a major nuclear exchange would be.

 

[Gwydden]

From most to least likely (in my oh-so-humble-opinion, of course):

1. Fantasy GSG: speculative fiction is more popular than history-themed media. In fact, I believe Stellaris is the most successful PDS game to date—and the space opera 4X is an oversaturated genre, if anything. There is an obvious thematic and mechanical niche to fill with a fantasy GSG (not just within the Paradox stable but in general), plus we already have evidence pointing in that direction, e.g., PDS hiring concept artists for a non-historical GSG.
2. Late Antiquity GSG: there is an obvious new mechanical approach that can be exploited here, I think. If CK is a grand RPG, Stellaris a grand 4X, and Victoria a grand management game, this could be a grand survival game, with decaying empires and migratory tribes focused less on growth and expansion and more on simply staying alive (ah, ha, ha, ha).
3. Cold War GSG: another one with a clear pitch, this time focused on espionage, deterrence, and spheres of influence. But that would be difficult to pull off, I think, and has much more room for controversy than any of the other items on this list.
4. Sci Fi GSG: cyberpunk, post-apocalyptic, or Alpha Centauri style, as others have suggested. I don't find this particularly likely. It overlaps a bit too much with Stellaris while still being outside of the traditional PDS wheelhouse of historical games.
5. Bronze Age GSG: would probably be deemed too similar to I:R—unfairly, since there would be the better part of a millennium between the two games' settings, and the Bronze Age does not resemble Classical Antiquity very much at all. But there is no obvious mechanical "hook" as with the other options, though that does not preclude them coming up with something.

A historical GSG set in a very specific region and/or period, like China, WW1, or the Napoleonic Wars, seems unlikely. PDS is already working within a small niche. To maximize their audience they need to either cast a wide net or go for an extremely popular theme like WW2. Other than HoI, all their narrowly set games have fallen on their face.

 

[Krajzen]

Fantasy grand strategy could be very popular idea. Personally I'd love a mix of fantasy and somewhat realistic empire - building framework from develooers who are peak of historical knowledge in gaming industry. And who could go far more imaginative in the fantasy version of the medieval (?) era than fantasy develooers and writers whose lack of any real knowledge of real life medieval world (or history and aocial sciences in general) makes their worlds very shallow and cliche.

I have tried to imagine how could such game work in PDX context. First you take the real world between late antiquity and early modern eras. Then you follow and sometimes inverse it using fantasy trooes. You create some broad narrative and setting and lore, so there is something to emotionally invest the player. There is this world, there is this magic system and rules of fantasy, there are several hypothesies how gods work (several religions), some broad legends, hints of much longer oast that can be later exoanded. The intro to the game is in exagerrated "Dark Ages" after the dramatic fall of "Roman empire" substitute. You begin as one of many small but asoiring tribes ("barbarians") and there are minor nations (like in Stellaris, Endless Legend, civ games) and "fallen stagnant decadent emoires" as well. There are some endgame crises of demonic or undead or eldritch invasion. The endgame is "early modern" equivalent of "scientific revolution" when the narrative says you have suroassed knowledge of ancients (also symbolically breaking from the fantasy genre through the denial of that "ancient elves were better anyway" trooe).

There can be some minor character system of CK3 - style dynasties and heroes. There could be great artifacts, spells, monsters, quests etc. Before the game you choose race, its subrace and subculture, government style and traditions, preferred lore of magic, maybe even appropriate fantasy - like ideology axis (though I'd prefer mostly grey morality). Inevitable exoansions allow you to play as undead, demonic, undersea races etc.

Worlds and nations are orocedurally generated like galaxies in Stellaris. Replayability and ways to expand the game are endless (unlike games that focus on very narrow area, age and features, and quickly run out of steam).