What do you do with your Coastal Defence Ship?

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Diakonen

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Im trying to find a good use of my CDS, but they pretty much suck at everything.

Take Sweden for example. You start with 9 heavies and 1 light CDS. Slow, weak and fuel consuming.

Is there any cost efficient way to upgrade them into something usefull?
 

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You defend your coast with your coastal defense ships.
 
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Caeric

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It's kind of sad since the CDS-class is mostly used as a catch-all for all kinds of ships including leftover Armored Cruisers from WW I, some of the less effective CDS ships which are basically just a few really big guns on a small cruiser hull, and the Sverige-class that probably arguably embody the definition of "pocket battleship" better than the German Panzerschiff ever did by actually having excellent armor to go along with the fairly high amount of firepower for their tonnage. Having nearly around as much armor as a battlecruiser.

If anything I reckon they should have some higher base hp and base armor since even a WW I Armored Cruiser has some pretty beefy protection, usually exceeding the thickness of even late, non-treaty restricted cruisers.

Edit: Also being damn well purpose-designed to fight in coastal waters they really shouldn't have the massive CA penalty for fighting in shallows and fjords and archipelagos. It's litterally their purpose..
 
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DicRoNero

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Im trying to find a good use of my CDS, but they pretty much suck at everything.

Take Sweden for example. You start with 9 heavies and 1 light CDS. Slow, weak and fuel consuming.

Is there any cost efficient way to upgrade them into something usefull?
Coastal Defense Tubs are non-upgradable; Light Hulls (i.e. HMS Gotland) can be converted into CV, but it's almost as expensive as just building one from the scratch and that particular ship actually isn't that bad as is, being a 1936 hull.
 

Diakonen

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Just disband them.

Sure you gain some manpower but there is alot of "free" IC that is lost. If we ever get the option to scrap a ship to gain som Naval Production boost for a couple of months...

You defend your coast with your coastal defense ships.

Haha, I wish :)

Coastal Defense Tubs are non-upgradable; Light Hulls (i.e. HMS Gotland) can be converted into CV, but it's almost as expensive as just building one from the scratch and that particular ship actually isn't that bad as is, being a 1936 hull.

HMS Gotland is a 1936 Light Cruiser (Even if Sweden does not have 1936 cruiser hull researched). I am talking about HMS Fylgia, a CDS with a small gun making it to a screen.
And yes you can upgrade them like any other ship since MtG. This is the real puropse of this thread, what do we put on the CDS to make them usefull?
Radar? Torpedo? Float plane? Heavy or Light guns?
They are usefull against other minors for shore bombardment, but as soon as you go up against any major they get shredded.
I would like to use them as a strike force that only attacks naval invasions, but then I have to put them on raiding, and since they are slow and fuel consuming its not even sure they find any convoys before all my fuel is lost...
 

Znail

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Fixing CDS so that they can have Battlecruiser armor to make them more historical have been suggested in this thread:
I have also personally tested this with a personal mod and while they are not suddenly great so are they worth keeping and pretty decent after some upgrades.
 
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Caeric

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Fixing CDS so that they can have Battlecruiser armor to make them more historical have been suggested in this thread:
I have also personally tested this with a personal mod and while they are not suddenly great so are they worth keeping and pretty decent after some upgrades.
Another option I suppose if it would make more sense or be less complicated would be to just have their armor slot provide 2x the normal bonus. In addition to upgrading their health so that it would actually be more comparable or better than a purpose built CA would make them a lot more efficient.

I'd also maybe argue for making them a tiny bit faster, a fully modernized one with 1936 tech should probably be able to steam at around 23-24 kts looking at something like the Sverige-class.
 
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STABBY5

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I think they need to be a researchable tech before you buff them. I hate the idea of country unique techs in a game that says an M4, T-34, and PZIV are the same tank.
 
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GSP Jr

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Use them as bait to lure enemy fleets to sea zones you use Strike Force in.
 
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Diakonen

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Fixing CDS so that they can have Battlecruiser armor to make them more historical have been suggested in this thread:
I have also personally tested this with a personal mod and while they are not suddenly great so are they worth keeping and pretty decent after some upgrades.

Another option I suppose if it would make more sense or be less complicated would be to just have their armor slot provide 2x the normal bonus. In addition to upgrading their health so that it would actually be more comparable or better than a purpose built CA would make them a lot more efficient.

I'd also maybe argue for making them a tiny bit faster, a fully modernized one with 1936 tech should probably be able to steam at around 23-24 kts looking at something like the Sverige-class.

I am grateful that you try to "solve" the CDS-issue. But the purpose of the thread was to answer the question "What do we do with our wortheless CDS"?
Patrol? Raider? Subhunter? Interceptor? Pocket BB? Something else?
 

Diakonen

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Use them as bait to lure enemy fleets to sea zones you use Strike Force in.

Haha, how? Just park them in the North Sea and hope someone will find them? :)
Then I also have to invest IC in making a proper fleet that can rescue the "bait". Sounds rather risky and expensive...
 

Caeric

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I am grateful that you try to "solve" the CDS-issue. But the purpose of the thread was to answer the question "What do we do with our wortheless CDS"?
Patrol? Raider? Subhunter? Interceptor? Pocket BB? Something else?
Nothing really honestly, in their current state they're pretty much useless sadly. They're just plain worse than a CA 90% of the time.
 

Caeric

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I think they need to be a researchable tech before you buff them. I hate the idea of country unique techs in a game that says an M4, T-34, and PZIV are the same tank.
You can always just easily licence buy the hull from one of the many nations that have them. Also compared to the Japanese torpedo cruisers which is frankly a vastly better general-purpose ship or the more niche German Panzerschiff the CDS-ship is just currently plain bad. It's about as crap as a pre-dreadnought despite historically actually having a niche rather than being leftover obsolete ships.
 

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They should have a tread upgrade so that they can became a land unit if needed

The japanese should be good at this stuff, as anime has shown
 
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But the purpose of the thread was to answer the question "What do we do with our wortheless CDS"?
Patrol? Raider? Subhunter? Interceptor? Pocket BB? Something else?

70198_r500.jpg
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Left picture - Finnish CDS Ilmarinen. Right picture - Ilmarinen's sister ship, Finnish CDS Väinämöinen camouflaged at the Finnish coast. Both pictures: SA-kuva.

Ilmarinen was the flagship of the Finnish Navy from 1933 until her sinking in 1941. Both ships, Ilmarinen and Väinämöinen are still the largest ships of all the time in the Finnish Navy.

The two ships were named after mythological heroes presented in the Finnish national epic and both the ships had a purpose in the Finnish coastal defense, especially at the Finnish coast in the Gulf of Finland. In relation to their size, the ships were heavily armed, but they were slower and smaller than normal cruisers during the era. Having a small draft, heavy gun-batteries, and tall towers, Ilmarinen and Väinämöinen were not so well qualified or seaworthy for open-water-operations, but the both ships were considered and prepared as a mobilized extension for the Finnish coastal gun-batteries standing still on the ground.

Ilmarinen disaster is the worst catastrophe of the Finnish Navy during peace or war. The 1941 Operation Nordwind was a Finnish-German distract co-operation to make the Soviets to believe a Finnish-German invasion would happen at the Estonian islands during the German attack to the Baltic States. 15 vessels - including Ilmarinen - set sail from the Finnish coast with an intention to be captured by the Soviet observation and sell the hoax about the fake-invasion, but the task force would turn back home at the midpoint before reaching the Estonian coast. However, after reaching the midpoint, Ilmarinen's captain decided to carry on the mission, thinking if he now would turn back to home, the Soviets wouldn't never "buy" the fake-operation. But this sea area wasn't cleared of the minefields - Ilmarinen ran into a minefield, a mine got stuck into the ship's paravane cable and the crew couldn't get loose of the mine, still Ilmarinen resumed on the mission. While dusk arrived, CDS Ilmarinen took a careful maneuver turning back to home. Despite of the security manners the stuck-on mine hit Ilmarinen's broadside or bottom, the explosion blew a large hole, which developed first a strong listing and then keeling over and Ilmarinen sank very quickly.

Operation Nordwind was a failure. The Finnish Navy lost its flagship, the Soviet intelligence never notified the task force, but later in the same autumn the Soviet news agency, TASS claimed that the Soviet Baltic Fleet sank Ilmarinen.
 
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Znail

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I think they need to be a researchable tech before you buff them. I hate the idea of country unique techs in a game that says an M4, T-34, and PZIV are the same tank.
The point is that they historically had as thick armor as battleships while being small cruiser sized. So giving them thicker armor only makes them more historical, it's not just to make them usefull.
 
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Caeric

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The point is that they historically had as thick armor as battleships while being small cruiser sized. So giving them thicker armor only makes them more historical, it's not just to make them usefull.
Not quite all of them, there was quite a lot of variation from basically nothing in cases like Väinamöinen, to around 5-6" or more on average, up to battlecruiser grade at highest.

But they should certainly have the option to be quite tough with the right modules.
 
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