What do the Devs have against Greece?

[Sallymane]

What do the Devs have against the Nation of Greece?

I mean let's put aside the horrendous idea set they have.
They are literally the only Nations in the Balkans (unless I forgot a Nation) which has no own Mission Tree.
Every single other Nations in the Balkans got one expect Greece.
Why D:

 

[ChiRho]

Why form Greece when you can play as Eastern Rome???

 

[Sallymane]

Cause I wanna play as Greece sometimes to and not this fake tag called Byz >w>

 

[Sidolowka]

They are literally the only Nations in the Balkans (unless I forgot a Nation) which has no own Mission Tree.

Bosnia, Herzegowina, Montenegro, Achaia, Morea, Crete, Corfu and Lesbos apparently don't exist. Nitra also doesn't have a mission tree either, but that's pushing the definition of the Balkans.

Small note that all starting date tags that are poised to form Greece (I.E. Naxos, Athens and Cyprus) all have their own mission trees. So unless you're doing something stupid like forming Greece with Bosnia, I don't see why you'd be complaining about Greece's lack of missions.

I mean let's put aside the horrendous idea set they have.

They're not great, but they're not horrendous either. I mean, I'd take Greek ideas over Albania's or Montenegro's anyday. Greece is one of the select few nations in the Balkans to have reduced core creation cost in their ideas, and -10% advisor cost, +1 diprep/diprelation and +2 ToTF makes the Greek idea set pretty decent. I'd give it a solid B, if only for the CCR and advisor cost.

 

[petertju]

yeah, they actually have surprisingly good ideas.

Furthermore they are a revolter tag that doesn't start in the game and almost never exist without player intervention. Of course I would like to have Greece missions, but there are many many many other countries that deserve missions before Greece.

 

[Sallymane]

Bosnia, Herzegowina, Montenegro, Achaia, Morea and Lesbos apparently don't exist.

Fair point I forgot about those nations. o:
Still then they should get some to uwu

Greece is the only nation in the Balkans to have reduced core creation cost in their ideas, and -10% advisor cost, +1 diprep/diprelation and +2 ToTF makes the Greek idea set pretty decent.

That one is not true.
Bosnia has -15% core-creation cost for example.

 

[Sidolowka]

That one is not true.
Bosnia has -15% core-creation cost for example.

I stand corrected. (I just remembered that Bulgaria also has -10% CCR)

But my point still stands, Greece has a decent idea set, and is definitely not the only nation in the Balkan peninsula lacking missions. They are instead one of nine, two of which exist upon game start unlike Greece.

This isn't to say that Greece is irrelevant however – Greek cultured nations in general need a lot of reworks, but I suggest that the devs should probably look into Byzantium, Theodoro and Trebizond before they go for Greece itself.

Greek doesn't even have Greek dynamic names for provinces in Greece for god's sake – not to mention how the Greek culture group is the second worst one in the game.

I can't be the only one that renames Constantinople -> Konstantinoupolis, Siroz -> Serres Athens -> Athina, etc. when playing Byzantium.

 

[Battlex]

I stand corrected. (I just remembered that Bulgaria also has -10% CCR)

But my point still stands, Greece has a decent idea set, and is definitely not the only nation in the Balkan peninsula lacking missions. They are instead one of nine, two of which exist upon game start unlike Greece.

Bulgaria is the Prussia of the balkans so CCR is odd

What do the Devs have against the Nation of Greece?

I mean let's put aside the horrendous idea set they have.
They are literally the only Nations in the Balkans (unless I forgot a Nation) which has no own Mission Tree.
Every single other Nations in the Balkans got one expect Greece.
Why D:

Greece is only meant to form byz as other tags, and to appear in late bookmarks, Etruria is another sidelined tag

 

[Sallymane]

Well..Greece got locked out of forming Byz lol

 

[Battlex]

Well..Greece got locked out of forming Byz lol

When?

 

[Sidolowka]

When?

The formation of both Byzantium and Greece now require each other to not exist, as in you cannot form Byzantium if Greece exists (including the nation trying to form it), and vice versa.

So there's no real reason to form Greece over Byzantium – unless you want to do some cursed shit and form Sunni Greece or something. (Byzantium requires you to be Orthodox, Greece doesn't)

Etruria is another sidelined tag

I mean, Etruria isn't formable, doesn't have any cores, and isn't the primary nation of Tuscan either, so I'd say Paradox is justified in maybe sidelining them.

 

[Sallymane]

In 1.30
Greece is unable to form Byzantium by any means on it's own now.
You have to tag switch first o:

 

[Battlex]

In 1.30
Greece is unable to form Byzantium by any means on it's own now.
You have to tag switch first o:

Yep change this patch I didn't notice, previously it was useful for such purposes tho

The formation of both Byzantium and Greece now require each other to not exist, as in you cannot form Byzantium if Greece exists (including the nation trying to form it), and vice versa.

So there's no real reason to form Greece over Byzantium – unless you want to do some cursed shit and form Sunni Greece or something. (Byzantium requires you to be Orthodox, Greece doesn't)



I mean, Etruria isn't formable, doesn't have any cores, and isn't the primary nation of Tuscan either, so I'd say Paradox is justified in maybe sidelining them.

Greece doesn't have cores until adm tech 20 which most people don't play to, etruria is normally only in napelonic start which no one plays, or you form tuscany and then swap primary culture

 

[klopkr]

In 1.30
Greece is unable to form Byzantium by any means on it's own now.
You have to tag switch first o:

Seems fine. If you lost the Byz at the start you aren't the Byz. Become Rome like every other nation.

 

[EarlKonrad]

What do the Devs have against the Nation of Greece?

That they never repay their debts.

Ahem. The treatment that the Balkan nations got was very... uneven. Some got flat out better mission trees than others and some trees are bugged. Greece is one of those incredibly obscure tags that isn't really historically relevant nor exists in 1444. I'm just speculating here but I think that Greece never made the cut when they thought which nations deserved a mission tree. Besides, Emperor has an astounding number of mission trees.

 

[frolix42]

Its almost like there is another, hugely flavorful Greek culture tag that gets a ridiculously disproportionate amount of attention.

I actually hold hope that there could be a future DLC that extends the Timeline to 1836 to connect with Victoria and adds a bunch of late game, early industrial revolution, nationalism mechanics. They could name that DLC 'Greece' and add some events for Greek Independence.

 

[Josar]

Honestly for Greece, Victoria 2 is the game to play. It starts not far after Greece gets its independence, and gives it alot of special flavor.

 

[wielkiciensteam]

Bulgaria is the Prussia of the balkans so CCR is odd

I'm tired of tags being called "Prussia of X". Bulgaria has +10% morale and +15% ICA. Not bad but nothing unusual. More than that - they have many useless ideas - +1 legitimacy, -1 unrest, -10% infantry cost....

 

[Battlex]

I'm tired of tags being called "Prussia of X". Bulgaria has +10% morale and +15% ICA. Not bad but nothing unusual. More than that - they have many useless ideas - +1 legitimacy, -1 unrest, -10% infantry cost....

Nah irl its what it was called

 

[Sidolowka]

Nah irl its what it was called

I mean, this was an entire century after EU4's timeline, so I don't really see how it's related.

But then again Germany, Japan and Italy all have meme ideas referencing concepts way outwith EU4's timeline so I guess you have somewhat of a point.