What do Demand in Defensive War?

[th3freakie]

The two greatest powers in the Galaxy have attacked my single remaining ally and trade partner (you genocide one single race and suddenly everyone thinks you're the bad guy...).

I am called to protect this nation, and I'll do my best, but they are literally on the other side of the Galaxy, with the two attackers also being pretty far away from me. Also I'll have a hard time reaching them because of closed borders. Still, honor and reasons of state demand we try to defend these guys.

I'm just not sure of the war goals to set. It is not feasible to annex planets from the attackers, nor do I think this war will end up with a 100% win on my part, but I'd like to weaken the bastards if i can. What's more damaging? Humiliation? Causing a "Liberate" planet? Something else? I mean, is there even a reason to set war-goals bellow 100%? Is there any penalty for not enforcing all of them at the end?

Thanks for any help

 

[MinerSebas]

I mean, is there even a reason to set war-goals bellow 100%? Is there any penalty for not enforcing all of them at the end?

Only when there to few targets is it accepteble to be under 100%. So what if that one wargoal isn't your main goal, if the sitouation changes you can be glad you put it in. There si also no penalty to not enforce the wargoal, except that you do not get them.

 

[Matoro_TBS]

Demands lower than 100% have an obvious advantage: you don't need to get 100% warscore. If you are not sure if you can get 100%, don't put that big demands. Often for defensive wars I choose goals worth 10-20% or something, so I can end the war quickly without tedious orbital invasions and so on. All the time fleet isn't in spaceport it costs a lot more, and especially in endgame just having your fleet out of orbit costs you hundreds of minerals per month, so faster wars are better wars.

 

[Slynx]

I'm just not sure of the war goals to set.

if you have power to take what you demand i guess the best goals would be:
cede every capital world. cleanse the rest.
if cleansing is not an option: vassalize strongest. or liberate planets with most production (especially if he has heavy energy or mineral focused planets. to destroy their economy.
just don't go over the limit of what you can chew.

ps: humiliation is pretty useless unless you want extra influence. but banning certain things can be terrific (like ban of AI\slaves)

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Liberate Planets.

Or force them to cede planets to your ally.

 

[Nirmara]

You could force them to liberate a few planets thereby creating a buffer state for your ally. Just keep in mind that the new empire will have your ethics so it might inherit a personality that is not useful for your ally.

You could also ask for nothing to make the war shorter. Being involved in far away wars always represent a risk since most of your fleet is not in a position to defend your empire.

 

[th3freakie]

I see. So I might as well ask for something like the liberation of their homeworld or ceding planets to my ally. Then if I can't get these things in time, settle for whatever is possible.

Cheers guys!

 

[tobias.mb]

Outright ceding planets is usually not that good in a defensive war. Depending on ethos (yours and theirs) those planets will only be filled with malcontents, that cause more trouble, than they are worth.
Liberating 2-3 border planets is however excellent. Even if you can't immediatly vassalize them (you usually can), it will be a buffer-state, that really likes you.
Humiliating alone doesn't really hurt anyone. It's only a -10% happiness penalty for 10 years. Unles your enemy already has unrest trouble or you simply need influence, don't do it. That's really the wargoal you take, if you don't really want anything from your enemy anyways OR you combine it with a slavery ban.
In fact slavery / AI ban are the wargoals, which will hurt your enemy the most. AI ban will make your enemy loose a good part of his population. Maybe even a few planets!
Slavery ban is fantastic against a slaver empire, that has already conquered a few alien worlds. Because slavery is usually the only thing keeping these worlds from massive rebellions.

 

[Secret Master]

Humiliate them? Can you order them to ban AI?

If they have robots, having them ban AI might seriously screw them up for fairly low war score.

 

[AvalancheZ250]

The two greatest powers in the Galaxy have attacked my single remaining ally and trade partner (you genocide one single race and suddenly everyone thinks you're the bad guy...).

I am called to protect this nation, and I'll do my best, but they are literally on the other side of the Galaxy, with the two attackers also being pretty far away from me. Also I'll have a hard time reaching them because of closed borders. Still, honor and reasons of state demand we try to defend these guys.

I'm just not sure of the war goals to set. It is not feasible to annex planets from the attackers, nor do I think this war will end up with a 100% win on my part, but I'd like to weaken the bastards if i can. What's more damaging? Humiliation? Causing a "Liberate" planet? Something else? I mean, is there even a reason to set war-goals bellow 100%? Is there any penalty for not enforcing all of them at the end?

Thanks for any help

Don't liberate, ever. It'll cause more problems in the long run, especially if your an purging/slavery/militaristic empire. In your war demands demand as much as you can, all the way up to the limit. What you demands is basically what you can pick from when you have enough warscore at any point during the war. Got the warscore but didn't pick that planet in the original demands? Can't take it in this war, sorry. If you win the war and get some planets, try to transfer control of the systems you don't want via the trade menu to buy a little bit of opinion with some empires. Then enter a non-aggression pact with them and trust will build up, hopefully giving you a cordial attitude when the trust is maxed out. Then you can trade with them, and trading really does help. Just don't purge an entire species, again. It won't go down well with them.

And since your not the main defender, you can't even make your own goals. You can suggest them (I think) but the AI ignores you regardless. You don't even have to defend your ally, unless the enemy has outlined some of your planets in their demands. I had that once, an ally got attacked and together we fought the enemy off. He lost his entire fleet though and got half of his planets occupied. When he surrendered my fleet still dwarfed the enemy fleet, but I had no say in the end of the war. I lost several of my planets for a war I could have won but the AI threw in the towel too early into it. Safe to say they weren't my allies for much longer.

TLDR

If they are trying to take your planets in the war, go help out the best you can. Otherwise, just ignore it. You'll lose anyway, and there's no point in wasting ships especially since your ally sets your own demands for you, so you may end up getting planets you don't want (or even nothing!) if you do win.

 

[Slynx]

Don't liberate, ever.

even though i don't usually liberate planets in my games i must disagree with you. sometimes liberating is a good think.
for example if you're pacifist it's the only way to get more land (because usually you can immediately vassalize liberated planets after war). or it may create a buffer between you and your enemy. and with the right pacts it may even save you from attackers.
oh, right. there is also an option to attack liberated planets righ after the war's end. (and cede them, but now they have no defense against you, cuz you've destroyed it during the war). and so on...

 

[AvalancheZ250]

for example if you're pacifist it's the only way to get more land (because usually you can immediately vassalize liberated planets after war)

I agree. But only for pacifists (ok maybe xenophiles too). Otherwise its not worth the effort and diplomacy

or it may create a buffer between you and your enemy. and with the right pacts it may even save you from attackers.

Perhaps, but this is very situational. Unless you have a specific reason to, you should never liberate planets because liberated empires can always change their ethics and may start spamming non-aggression pacts and defensive pacts that put you in a very precarious situation.

oh, right. there is also an option to attack liberated planets righ after the war's end. (and cede them, but now they have no defense against you, cuz you've destroyed it during the war). and so on...

That'll give you a huge opinion malus (more Threat generated) and why do this when its only slightly harder to get it ceded to you after a war? I mean, its like 15% extra warscore (I think). Not a whole lot if your only going for a few planets.

 

[tobias.mb]

Pacifists and Xenophile are the obvious liberators, however even for other ethos it can make sense.
In the current version of the game the only ones who can deal with aliens, with radically different ethos are either a) fan. Individualists, who don't care b) fan. Spiritualists, who can actually convert pops, or c) collectivists / Xenophobes, who are allowed to enslave unruly pops (though that kills your science and energy output, so even they might not always go for conquest)
For everyone else, it can be better to simply liberate (and vassalise) aliens. That can be especially true for xenophobe aliens!

If you are playing fan. militarist, materialist how exactly do you plan to integrate the fan. purifier empire next door? Or those fan. pacifists on your other border.
Granted even the liberated nation won't really be able to deal with fan pacifist pops, but at least it won't be your problem. And the Xenophobes won't even get the alien Overlord penalty, since the new government is still technically led by their own species.

 

[Slynx]

That'll give you a huge opinion malus

when i play everyone hates me anyway. and i don't know what to do to prevent it (not that i really want to prevent it). in my latest finished game i even had -3-4k opinion about me from the last survived sides
so i fail to understand why opinion malus is a bad thing. sorry.

as for the reason "why" - i rarely do it, but sometimes it's justified. iirc Liberate is cheaper then cede by 1 point. it may make a difference. also new liberated countries can form a defensive pact (yeah-yeah it's cheesy, but still) with someone i had truce with. hmmm...and you can probably humiliate them!

 

[th3freakie]

Just a follow-up on this.

Yes, it turned out I couldn't set war goals at wall, making me wonder why the game was reminding me to do so. The war went better than expected, and included my largest victory in Stellaris so far, when my 28k fleet defeated the enemy's 33k fleet on the basis of superior tech/focus fire alone.

The AI set-up plenty of defending war-goals, which included:

1) Humiliation of the enemy leader, in my favor;
2) Some 5 planets for my Ally
3) 1 Planet for each of my vassals​

Peace came when we had around +47 war score, and it enforced the Humiliation, 2 planets for my ally, and 2 planets for 2 of my vassals.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Sounds about right. The AI had the same problem you did, it didn't know what to give you but because you're his big strong friend, it didn't want to offend you by shafting you, so it gave you 3/5ths of the reward.

 

[Almond_Brown]

Liberate Planets.

Or force them to cede planets to your ally.

I would "Liberate" the max allowed planets worth and then, after the War ends and you buff them up some, offer them as Gifts to your Ally to further strengthen them in case of any future incursions. No immediate worries about them coming after you either, if as you say, they are currently across the Galaxy...