I'm using 7/2s but it seems to take too long before I have enough guns for new divisions
What divisions do you use as japan when you invade china?
- Thread starter bigballofpaint
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24 units 14/4 as main army with 5 support (engineer/artillery/logistic/signal/recon) to push from east next to the sea.
24 units 10inf as support army with just engineers to hold west (more inland regions, like communist china).
I do not naval invade just escalate till no more debuffs, then battle plan push. In the end I got two 6 level generals...
No tanks No Cas
Just inf / artillery / support companies / trucks / fighters.
I actually naval invade but only next to my main army to grind naval invader trait for a general. Not for encirclements, etc...
And Superior Firepower Doctrine
24 units 10inf as support army with just engineers to hold west (more inland regions, like communist china).
I do not naval invade just escalate till no more debuffs, then battle plan push. In the end I got two 6 level generals...
No tanks No Cas
Just inf / artillery / support companies / trucks / fighters.
I actually naval invade but only next to my main army to grind naval invader trait for a general. Not for encirclements, etc...
And Superior Firepower Doctrine
Since Japan starts with some nice 12 battalion templates I usually build on that until they are 40 width:
- I add 5 ART to my INF template to make them 39 width, eventually they will get an AA battalion. Support is ENG REC ART MAINT and I think I added Hospitals because they have so much manpower.
- I disband those silly INF/Lt Tk brigades and add a Lt Tank battalion to my two Motorized divs. I recycle my Lt Tk I's into Lt SPART II's and add 4 battalions of those to make them 38 width, though I usually only have one bn added by Marco Polo. Eventually they get Lt TD, hopefully before I go to war with the Allies (late 1939) and definitely before I invade the Soviets (late 1940). Same support as INF Divs.
- I have quite a few 20 width CAV forming the bulk of my mobile units. I tried a Lt Tk battalion which gave them an armour bonus but I don't think it was worth it. Lt Tk Recon on the other hand...
- I took starting Rikusentai (Marines) template to 10 x MAR because I did not have enough Army XP to take them to 40 width by Marco Polo. They are organized like my INF Divs before they make Malaya and the East Indies rightful Japanese clay. I would recommend Lt Tk recon for those divisions.
- I used to build a buttload of 10 width 5 x Cav + REC ART as a useful cheap unit for suppression/port defense, and for scouting, screening and exploitation in secondary theaters such as Africa and Siberia. Not sure if I would field these with the new garrison mechanics.
24 10-0 Infantry with engineer, recon and support artillery. Some of these are converted from starting garrison units.
As many 5-5 LT/MOT as I can build + starting cavalry (plus puppet cav)
10-0 Marines x3 + whatever else I can build before the war
Use Steel for Guns when you have your first 50 PP and don't put any mils on aircraft and you will have enough to equip your land forces.
As many 5-5 LT/MOT as I can build + starting cavalry (plus puppet cav)
10-0 Marines x3 + whatever else I can build before the war
Use Steel for Guns when you have your first 50 PP and don't put any mils on aircraft and you will have enough to equip your land forces.
Usually, something like this:
- about 40x20w (eng/rec/art) infantry (expanded to 3 full armies (72 divisions) as production catches up - although, war tends to end sooner)
- 2x default mot, reduced to 20w
- 3x20w (3/2/4+eng/rec/art) light tank divisions
- 6x10w (eng/rec/art) marines (later expanded to 10, limited by training time and army size)
Obviously, done with default air/BB support. Starting by July '37, I, usually, finish it by late spring '38 (without any shenanigans like landing around capital, surrounding it and pushing in to take all the victory points mostly uncontested - which I'd, probably, finish up by the end of '37, even before removing all debuffs). Naval invasions are typically done only to ensure AI sends units for me to cut off with tanks.
Tried a pure infantry strat once: either I'm doing something wrong with it, or it takes painfully long in comparison (not to mention, armour is a nice xp drain: hate to see it wasted).
- about 40x20w (eng/rec/art) infantry (expanded to 3 full armies (72 divisions) as production catches up - although, war tends to end sooner)
- 2x default mot, reduced to 20w
- 3x20w (3/2/4+eng/rec/art) light tank divisions
- 6x10w (eng/rec/art) marines (later expanded to 10, limited by training time and army size)
Obviously, done with default air/BB support. Starting by July '37, I, usually, finish it by late spring '38 (without any shenanigans like landing around capital, surrounding it and pushing in to take all the victory points mostly uncontested - which I'd, probably, finish up by the end of '37, even before removing all debuffs). Naval invasions are typically done only to ensure AI sends units for me to cut off with tanks.
Tried a pure infantry strat once: either I'm doing something wrong with it, or it takes painfully long in comparison (not to mention, armour is a nice xp drain: hate to see it wasted).
And then you have me over here advocating against using SF. Stick with GPB at least until you have 100 xp, because the first few SF techs do very little compared to GBP itself.
In terms of divisions, I haven't actually done Japan in a short while, but I reckon that a 9/3 or 12/1 would actually work quite well for Japan. 10/0 simply doesn't have the soft attack to deal with the Chinese divisions fast enough, while something like 7/2 uses too much arty - something which Japan (at first) doesn't have the industry for.
Oh, and don't bother with tanks. You don't have enough IC to support a tank army. You'll want a few MOT at most for encirclements - the infantry can do most of the work.
In terms of divisions, I haven't actually done Japan in a short while, but I reckon that a 9/3 or 12/1 would actually work quite well for Japan. 10/0 simply doesn't have the soft attack to deal with the Chinese divisions fast enough, while something like 7/2 uses too much arty - something which Japan (at first) doesn't have the industry for.
Oh, and don't bother with tanks. You don't have enough IC to support a tank army. You'll want a few MOT at most for encirclements - the infantry can do most of the work.
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I use what I've got. You don't need much else to be honest. Just produce lots of infantry weapons. Request the cavalry units from your puppets to guard the borders in the north, and dig in. Naval invade ten divisions in the south east and drive till you meet up with your men around Beinjing. I've done this many times and you end up surrounding a pocket of up to 300,000 men. Make sure you use your armour and motorized for speed. Once they are surrounded you can pretty much do anything you want. Much simplified of course, but thats the strategy that works for me, every time.
I usualy take the Silent Workhorse for my first PP and only then Steel for Guns. I also only build Civ. Even then I have enough Mil for CAS and Tanks, combined with a good Inf Army.
I use pure 10 Inf and then just use 8Mot/LSPART2 mobile divisions and then like 3 Mils on CAS, where I try to get CAS2 early and put +5Range oh them.
My Inf can grind with minimal equipment loss, because they don't have anything to lose, and my tanks combined with CAS are doing encirclment so I have some fun.
I use pure 10 Inf and then just use 8Mot/LSPART2 mobile divisions and then like 3 Mils on CAS, where I try to get CAS2 early and put +5Range oh them.
My Inf can grind with minimal equipment loss, because they don't have anything to lose, and my tanks combined with CAS are doing encirclment so I have some fun.
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I make 24 divisions in my starting army 14-4 with engineers, support arty, and light tank recon. I convert the rest of my divisions to 10-0 infantry with engineers. I push along the coast of China with my 14-4 army and use the 20w infantry to hold the line. AI China can't pierce the 14-4s because of the light tank recon. I take time to grind a good general while I have the Marco Polo debuff, then once my general has all the skills I want I capitulate China.
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5/5 LT tanks/mot and as many cav as I can build. 24 of starting units on Beijing border. Tanks and cav in Dalian. Remaining 10W infantry in Taiwan. Once debuff is removed, invade from Qingdao and rush straight to Chongqin, and in the south to take coast forts. Make sure to take a province from the other members of the China faction. War's over in a few months.
Rather than worrying about focuses or the 95% cap threshold nonsense you can justify on China before taking any focuses and crush them with starting divisions. This was from an earlier patch but same tactics should still work just fine now.
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Ah, I see. They added a random arbitrary block because reasons.
Still, you can rush marco polo incident and win with starting divisions easily, no need for special tricks.
Still, you can rush marco polo incident and win with starting divisions easily, no need for special tricks.
Also you don't wanna be to fast, you need to run 3 collaberation operations before China capitulates.
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If you want the compliance, dont bother with more than 2. Even if you get 30% twice, you have access to 74% of their factories. The third mission is not worth the additional 19.5%-26% that you get from the last mission with its increased preparation cost.
If you want the collaboration, dont bother with the nationalists. Do it on the communists. They cant make an agency to slow you down. And their national spirits and inital laws are much better. You get all of their resources despite being on closed eco, unlike the nationalists who are on free trade and will prevent you from taking all their resources. The communists are also on service by requirement and partial mob which they will up to war eco during the war.
If you want the collaboration, dont bother with the nationalists. Do it on the communists. They cant make an agency to slow you down. And their national spirits and inital laws are much better. You get all of their resources despite being on closed eco, unlike the nationalists who are on free trade and will prevent you from taking all their resources. The communists are also on service by requirement and partial mob which they will up to war eco during the war.
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Why does it matter what economy law either China is on when they get annexed?
If you want them to build anything of their own.
For one thing, they're already paying you 75% of their civs. If they lose another 35% of their total factory count to consumer goods from civ eco that's it, they have nothing left to build with, even if they have nothing but civs. But PRC can get -15% cg by focus (while ROC gets their consumer goods count inflated. ouch.), so they will always have a few civs to build with. Especially if they go total mob, which a PRC collab is liable to do if you give them all of their cores.
Secondly, those factories that they use to build with use their build speed modifiers, even if it's a build order that you queued. So you can set build orders in their land and they will carry them out with their civs using their build speeds. The difference between -30% civ eco to +20% war eco or +30% total mob in mil build speed modifiers is significant, even if it does apply to only a few factories.
For one thing, they're already paying you 75% of their civs. If they lose another 35% of their total factory count to consumer goods from civ eco that's it, they have nothing left to build with, even if they have nothing but civs. But PRC can get -15% cg by focus (while ROC gets their consumer goods count inflated. ouch.), so they will always have a few civs to build with. Especially if they go total mob, which a PRC collab is liable to do if you give them all of their cores.
Secondly, those factories that they use to build with use their build speed modifiers, even if it's a build order that you queued. So you can set build orders in their land and they will carry them out with their civs using their build speeds. The difference between -30% civ eco to +20% war eco or +30% total mob in mil build speed modifiers is significant, even if it does apply to only a few factories.
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Did it current patch with starting divisions.
For some reason, the game cheated me out of Guangxi Clique. They were in the war, and they took > 50k casualties. Yet they magic'd their way out of the peace deal and got white peace anyway. Sinkiang legit did nothing so that's more understandable.
The 75% rule is arbitrary, disappointed to see more things like that randomly make their way into the game. But you can still blow up China pretty fast with good micro.
For some reason, the game cheated me out of Guangxi Clique. They were in the war, and they took > 50k casualties. Yet they magic'd their way out of the peace deal and got white peace anyway. Sinkiang legit did nothing so that's more understandable.
The 75% rule is arbitrary, disappointed to see more things like that randomly make their way into the game. But you can still blow up China pretty fast with good micro.
Are you talking about releasing them as a collaboration government? I typically just keep them annexed to avoid the hassle.