What determines the law of the land in Empires

[Shuriken]

I'm playing the game as the Byzantine Empire (now Roman), there are several kingdoms within the empire, as well as a few kingdoms the empire holds territory in. I was looking through the crown authority of the kingdoms, and almost all had a separate indicator for crown law, except the kingdom of Serbia, which only had a message for "Under the crown law of Roman Empire". Is there a reason why Serbia in particular is under the crown law of the Roman Empire, but none of the others are? Serbia is held (IIRC) by the former Imperial line, they had taken control of it shortly after the coup which put me on the throne, however members of the same dynasty hold other kingdoms, while I personally hold Greece - none of those kingdoms automatically match Roman law.

So anyone knows what causes this? I'd rather have as much as possible fall under Roman Law.

 

[Dracko81]

De Jure Kingdoms follow thier Empires Laws if they are a vassal of it only.

If a kingdom is not de jure, they will not follow your CA.

If a duchy of another empire, follows the CA of its de jure empire.

If a duchy has no crown to answer to - even if not de jure - it will answer to its de facto empire.

And finally Kingdoms follow the CA of their de jure empire, if they are vassalised.

Hope that helps.

 

[Shuriken]

So why does Greece have its own crown laws, while Serbia doesn't? Both are de jure. Is it because I (the Emperor) controls the title for Greece?

 

[Dracko81]

So why does Greece have its own crown laws, while Serbia doesn't? Both are de jure. Is it because I (the Emperor) controls the title for Greece?

If you hold the title of k_greece its CA relates to titles under it. So your dukes in greece could be low CA and your vassal kingdoms at High CA because of differing crown laws.

Empire CA affects Kingdoms and duchies with no kingdom titles created. If an Emperor holds a Kingdom title they can also set the CA for that crown.

It is worth noting that vassal de jure kings can not change thier CA. Thier de jure dukes also do no recieve the normal malus to relations for CA. So the Duke of Granada in the above example with andalusia as a de jure vassal has no penalty towards thier liege for CA, but they are effected by Medium CA.

 

[aprogressivist]

If you hold the title of k_greece its CA relates to titles under it. So your dukes in greece could be low CA and your vassal kingdoms at High CA because of differing crown laws.

It's k_byzantium for the Kingdom of Greece, by-the-by. (Confusing, I know.)

 

[Dracko81]

It's k_byzantium for the Kingdom of Greece, by-the-by. (Confusing, I know.)

I use k_xyz when relating to all kingdoms, when I get sick of typing "kingdom of". I didn't realise greece was like that it was just me being lazy...I hope everyone was confused. :laugh:

 

[nestorius]

was sent here but still dont get it. If

If I am Hispania and have two vassals Sultanate of France and Sultanate of Andalusia and Have medium authority, but only Andalusia is De jure.

Does it mean that France can attack Andalusia but Andalusia cannot attack France?

 

[Dracko81]

Does it mean that France can attack Andalusia but Andalusia cannot attack France?

If Francia is not created, and Frances CA is < Medium. Yes they can DoW Andalusia.

EDIT: Sorry, that is not right. Non de jure kingdoms are not bound by Empire laws.

 

[nestorius]

So basically the lesson here is dont give your vassals non dejure kingdoms or they will do what they want.

 

[Yxklyx]

...
It is worth noting that vassal de jure kings can not change thier CA. Thier de jure dukes also do no recieve the normal malus to relations for CA. So the Duke of Granada in the above example with andalusia as a de jure vassal has no penalty towards thier liege for CA, but they are effected by Medium CA.

Hi Dracko, is the above new or am I misunderstanding. In a previous game I was Emperor of Persia and I'd typically give the Sultanate of Persia to my heir - and he would always raise CA immediately. Sultan of Persia is a vassal de jure King of Persian Empire.

 

[Yxklyx]

...

And finally Kingdoms follow the CA of their de jure empire, if they are vassalised.

Hope that helps.

Vassalised by anyone or vassalised by their De Jure Empire?

In other words, if you control a Kingdom that's De Jure part of another Empire does it follow that Empire's CA?

 

[Dracko81]

Hi Dracko, is the above new or am I misunderstanding. In a previous game I was Emperor of Persia and I'd typically give the Sultanate of Persia to my heir - and he would always raise CA immediately. Sultan of Persia is a vassal de jure King of Persian Empire.

I will look at it. But I checked all my de jure vassals in my britannia game and they could affect CA of thier kingdoms.

 

[Dracko81]

Vassalised by anyone or vassalised by their De Jure Empire?

In other words, if you control a Kingdom that's De Jure part of another Empire does it follow that Empire's CA?

That screenshot shows Anatolia De jure of Byzantine empire, follows byzantine CA. Even though Anatolia is a vassal of Britannia.

EDIT:

I hope this Screenshot clears this up completely.

 

[Dracko81]

Hi Dracko, is the above new or am I misunderstanding. In a previous game I was Emperor of Persia and I'd typically give the Sultanate of Persia to my heir - and he would always raise CA immediately. Sultan of Persia is a vassal de jure King of Persian Empire.

I will look at it. But I checked all my de jure vassals in my britannia game and they could affect CA of thier kingdoms.

Was this game pre 1.07? I just made a game with mesop and persia as vassals of the persian empire and they were bound by the empires laws. They were unable to raise or lower thier kingdoms CA.

 

[Yxklyx]

So basically the lesson here is dont give your vassals non dejure kingdoms or they will do what they want.

Yeah, this is a good lesson. First, it's important to control all territory in a Kingdom so that it starts drifting into your Empire. If there's one county that's not part of your realm the Kingdom won't drift. Medium or higher Empire CA won't do squat for non dejure kingdoms in your realm - these Kingdoms will start wars with your other vassals. In my last game as Scandinavia I handed out Kingdoms of Rus and Ruthenia - neither were dejure part of Scandinavia so Rus was able to start a claim war for Ruthenia which would have united both Kingdoms under one character - not a situation I would be happy with.

 

[mr_human_555]

Was this game pre 1.07? I just made a game with mesop and persia as vassals of the persian empire and they were bound by the empires laws. They were unable to raise or lower thier kingdoms CA.

My vassal king of Armenia & Anatolia always raise CA (I'm restored Roman). But the strange thing is that if I hold the Armenian Crown, I cannot raise the CA. And in the dejure map, the crown law of Armenia & Anatolia is still the crown law of Roman Empire, even though my vassal kings raise CA

 

[Dracko81]

My vassal king of Armenia & Anatolia always raise CA (I'm restored Roman). But the strange thing is that if I hold the Armenian Crown, I cannot raise the CA. And in the dejure map, the crown law of Armenia & Anatolia is still the crown law of Roman Empire, even though my vassal kings raise CA

Roman Empire is a Titular empire correct? Not sure how titular empires work since they do not have de jure vassals. They may act differently to de jure empires.

 

[Yxklyx]

That screenshot shows Anatolia De jure of Byzantine empire, follows byzantine CA. Even though Anatolia is a vassal of Britannia.

I understand that the overlay shows it as following Byzantine CA; however, I just wanted to make sure that the provision that prevents vassals from attacking a fellow vassal is actually enforced in this situation. It just seems a bit odd that a foreign CA can prevent (or allow) your vassal from attacking another one of your vassals - the developers could have coded it either way I think.

Was this game pre 1.07? I just made a game with mesop and persia as vassals of the persian empire and they were bound by the empires laws. They were unable to raise or lower thier kingdoms CA.

Yes that was in 1.06 so it looks like a change with the recent patches.

 

[Dracko81]

I understand that the overlay shows it as following Byzantine CA; however, I just wanted to make sure that the provision that prevents vassals from attacking a fellow vassal is actually enforced in this situation. It just seems a bit odd that a foreign CA can prevent (or allow) your vassal from attacking another one of your vassals - the developers could have coded it either way I think.

I can confirm that under britannia low CA, Anatolia under medium byzantine CA can not declare war on a fellow britannian vassal.

Did not screenshot it, why do I do all your testing? :unsure:

 

[Yxklyx]

I can confirm that under britannia low CA, Anatolia under medium byzantine CA can not declare war on a fellow britannian vassal.

Did not screenshot it, why do I do all your testing? :unsure:

Thanks!. I think you have the game running all the time I didn't consider loading up a save and testing it myself.