What content would you like added to the Byzantium in 1.36?

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MohawkWolfo98

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Dec 9, 2018
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As a proud Byzabro (Rhomabro?) I’m absolutely excited and extremely curious at the news that Byzantium will receive a reworked mission tree, given that historical authenticity is limited given that it’s own its last gasping breath. What content would you like to see in 1.36?

Some minor things that I hope for, that the formation of the Roman Empire is redone so that it isn’t so harsh that u need to conquer the entirety of Europe and perhaps confine it to just the borders of Justinanian’s empire. And perhaps rename Byzantium to the Eastern Roman Empire.

But I also hope that the content adds mission trees to the true heirs to the Roman Empire, Trebizond :) With Imeriti being gone in 1.36, it’s going to be harder to expand and I hope that Trebizond maybe might get its own unique missions to restore the East
 
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- Some form of modelling of the Council of Florence, be it an early event chain or a full blown disaster that culminates in a final decision about which religion to follow. I think it's best modeled with an Orthodox Byzantium but Catholic rulers until said event chain is finished.
- The question of how to deal with the west once your position is secure. I think ideally both the Catholic and the Orthodox path would revolve around Caesaropapism but in different ways: Orthodox is the current in-game reestablishing the Pentarchy and robbing the Pope of any special power he has, as well as dismantling the HRE. But I see a Catholic Byzantium instead working with these institutions, with the ultimate goal of dominating them. Think entering the HRE with an exemption to losing your Empire rank, and maybe a later mission reward that makes you the permanent Curia controller.
- Yes, a Justinianic Border requirement for forming Rome. I'd also let Trebizond do this as also a Roman rump state.
- Bit of a powerboost, but the option to acquire the Aegean islands and other greek lands with free cores if certain conditions are met
- Rework the triumphs, maybe? Make more of them, make their rewards feel more significant? If Paradox are going in on Byzantine-Persian rivalry, a Triumph for owning the major cities in Persia would be a nice fit, for example. Not to mention reversing the catastrophes after Yarmouk.
- Content around the Byzantine contributions to the Renaissance, and how that looks if the Byzantine contributions stay in Greece. Like an event chain surrounding Gemistos Plethon and his writings.
- The question of whether to restore the Anatolian Greek cultures or to integrate the Turkish newcomers, with similar questions in the Balkans. Really expand the Byzantine Culture group
- I've also seen a desire for the option for Byzantium to fully embrace its Greek character and give up on Roman Restoration. It sounds cool as a pitch, but would be really speculative in how it happens. It might be part of a larger internal question of how the Roman legacy looks in the Renaissance and Enlightenment. Do traditional autocracies fade away, compromise with the rising middle class, or do they double down? Might one possible reform give Byzantium the ability to create tributaries, like the Roman Client Kingdoms of old?

In any case I've created several mods in an attempt to model some of these suggestions, which may help convey what's possible beyond "hey wouldn't it be cool if". During which I learned it's impossible to script that the Curia sticks with one country, it would have to be hardcoded.
 
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Honestly speaking, I feel like Byzantium already has very much content for a nation bound to disappear off the face of the map in 10 years. But since I also like playing as them, I wouldn't mind PDX expanding on their mission tree.

What I wouldn't like to see, however is more ancient LARPing. Seeing what they're announcing for Persia, I hope that they will focus on more realistic stuff for Byzantium rather than, let's say, adding Hellenism (although a new religion in and of itself would always be appreciated).

I would like to see how an evolved Roman Empire would adapt to the Early Modern World. As other users have mentioned, having an event chain (or even a disaster) related to the choice between Catholicism and Orthodoxy would be cool. It would also be really cool to have a choice (probably implemented through missions) whether Byzantium wants to keep titling themselves as the successors of the Ancient Roman Empire, or whether it wants to embrace its own, completely Greek identity. This culture/identity choice could be implemented either in the early game or only in the late game (Age of Absolutism or Revolutions), since Nationalism (so Byzantines embracing their Greek roots) only started to slowly gain popularity in those later ages.

Apart from that, I would really like to see more culture-related stuff added to the game. It's nice that devs are adding a Perso-Turkic culture (it's shown in the background of a screenshot in the last dev diary; I assume it's persianised Anatolian Turkish), but maybe they could expand upon other Mediterranean cultures?

For historical accuracy the province of Chaldia (2304) should probably be of Pontic Greek culture (correct me if it wasn't irl) and there should be events for the Ottomans to change Edirne (149) to Muslim/Turkish (late 15th century) and to change Smyrna (318) to Orthodox/Greek (17th century?) to represent the historical migrations/assimilations.

Apart from this devs should:
  • move Albanian to the Byzantine group (from the start)
  • add Hellenised Turkish and South Slavic cultures (Byzantine group; available to Byz through missions; the mission could convert a few random provinces of the original culture to the Hellenised version of that culture, the rest you'd have to convert manually)
  • maybe add the Coptic culture (could be either in the Nubian or the Byzantine group)
  • maybe a Mughal-Diwan mechanic for a resurgent Byzantium/Rome to accept the myriad of Mediterranean cultures
  • at least add a mission reward to accept all Italian cultures for free if they conquer Italy (the Ottomans already have this, so it would be stupid if the Byzantines didn't).
 
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1. Ability to rename Areas as long as player controls entire Area. It kinda feels akward when ever i see Greek or Latin names of Cities/Provinces while Area is Arabic or Turkish named.

2. Decide the name of the nation. Player should have this choice or at least once the Roman Empire is restored to decide states name. So whether it is Byzantium, Rome, Eastern Roman Empire.

2. Decide your capital of Byzantium and main culture, so whether it should be Rome or Constantinople or have main culture Greek or Roman.

3. Lower the requirement to restore the Roman Empire. Everyone knows current requirements so here's my suggestion. Own Rome with Southern Italy and Sicily, some territories in Balkans and East Mediterranean islands, Anatolia with Antioch and Trebizond and you can do it.

4. Make Byzantine/Roman missions more oriented towards restoring the borders under Emperor Justinian. Also by missions make Pentarchy a thing or something like Myaphisits have today.

5. Move cultures like Roman or Coptic to Byzantine culture group. Coptic should be more like if Byzantium/Rome manage to retake Egypt while Romans could be same culture with Greeks.
 
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Like it or not, it's a focus of the next update. Once you reconquer Anatolia and the Balkans, you should get an event to allow you to rename the country to "Eastern Roman Empire" (or Rhomania too?) - the Empire finally lost the last of its legitimacy in the eyes of the West after it lost the Battle of Myriokephalon and failed to reconquer Anatolia.
When you reconquer and convert Italy, you should get an event like the new Russian one that puts all Italian cultures and Greek into a new "Roman" culture group.
If you have an alliance and royal marriage with Trebizond and have no heir, you should get an event to make a member of the Komnenos dynasty your heir; succession by adoption was still a long-standing Roman tradition and I'm not sure the childless Constantine XI would want to pull a Basil II with the Empire so vulnerable and let his idiot brothers succeed him.
 
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None, the purple phoenix DLC was enough
Byz already has a lot of content. Personally I'd rather have the effort put towards other nations
I agree, I think Byzantium has received plenty already. Nearby countries in the Caucasus are in dire need of flavour, as are numerous Arabic tags, as well as Trebizond, Ferghana, Mamluks and so on.
 
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What I wouldn't like to see, however is more ancient LARPing. Seeing what they're announcing for Persia, I hope that they will focus on more realistic stuff for Byzantium rather than, let's say, adding Hellenism (although a new religion in and of itself would always be appreciated).
This is my big one, too. There's SO MUCH interesting stuff you could do with an alt-history where Byzantium survived. How do they deal with their new Turkish, Muslim subjects? How do they reintegrate with European politics? Do they even try? Do they take a hard religious line, or a softer one? How does the reformation hit them? I want them to really dig into that kind of narrative, rather than "resurgent rome go brrrr".

... I've got my accidental [Any Italian Minor] > Rome playthroughs for that.
 
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Honestly speaking, I feel like Byzantium already has very much content for a nation bound to disappear off the face of the map in 10 years. But since I also like playing as them, I wouldn't mind PDX expanding on their mission tree.

What I wouldn't like to see, however is more ancient LARPing. Seeing what they're announcing for Persia, I hope that they will focus on more realistic stuff for Byzantium rather than, let's say, adding Hellenism (although a new religion in and of itself would always be appreciated).

I would like to see how an evolved Roman Empire would adapt to the Early Modern World. As other users have mentioned, having an event chain (or even a disaster) related to the choice between Catholicism and Orthodoxy would be cool. It would also be really cool to have a choice (probably implemented through missions) whether Byzantium wants to keep titling themselves as the successors of the Ancient Roman Empire, or whether it wants to embrace its own, completely Greek identity. This culture/identity choice could be implemented either in the early game or only in the late game (Age of Absolutism or Revolutions), since Nationalism (so Byzantines embracing their Greek roots) only started to slowly gain popularity in those later ages.

Apart from that, I would really like to see more culture-related stuff added to the game. It's nice that devs are adding a Perso-Turkic culture (it's shown in the background of a screenshot in the last dev diary; I assume it's persianised Anatolian Turkish), but maybe they could expand upon other Mediterranean cultures?

For historical accuracy the province of Chaldia (2304) should probably be of Pontic Greek culture (correct me if it wasn't irl) and there should be events for the Ottomans to change Edirne (149) to Muslim/Turkish (late 15th century) and to change Smyrna (318) to Orthodox/Greek (17th century?) to represent the historical migrations/assimilations.

Apart from this devs should:
  • move Albanian to the Byzantine group (from the start)
  • add Hellenised Turkish and South Slavic cultures (Byzantine group; available to Byz through missions; the mission could convert a few random provinces of the original culture to the Hellenised version of that culture, the rest you'd have to convert manually)
  • maybe add the Coptic culture (could be either in the Nubian or the Byzantine group)
  • maybe a Mughal-Diwan mechanic for a resurgent Byzantium/Rome to accept the myriad of Mediterranean cultures
  • at least add a mission reward to accept all Italian cultures for free if they conquer Italy (the Ottomans already have this, so it would be stupid if the Byzantines didn't).
I fully agree with you; I really hope they don’t add the option to go full pagan. It was long long gone by the time of Byzantiums day and really far fetched - the Emperor probably would have been overthrown immediately if he ever even suggested it. At least Zoroastrianism is an actual religion that survives to this very day.
 
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Like it or not, it's a focus of the next update. Once you reconquer Anatolia and the Balkans, you should get an event to allow you to rename the country to "Eastern Roman Empire" (or Rhomania too?) - the Empire finally lost the last of its legitimacy in the eyes of the West after it lost the Battle of Myriokephalon and failed to reconquer Anatolia.
When you reconquer and convert Italy, you should get an event like the new Russian one that puts all Italian cultures and Greek into a new "Roman" culture group.
If you have an alliance and royal marriage with Trebizond and have no heir, you should get an event to make a member of the Komnenos dynasty your heir; succession by adoption was still a long-standing Roman tradition and I'm not sure the childless Constantine XI would want to pull a Basil II with the Empire so vulnerable and let his idiot brothers succeed him.
Oh yes please - I hope we can reach out to Trebizond if we have an alliance and ask to adopt a member of the Komnenos clan - in a way resolving the civil war which plagued Byzantium following the 4th Crusade. It would be a really cool way to end the old ways, and begin anew in a new World
 
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I will agree with some of the commenters above and say that I DON'T want them to just add content about Byzantium restoring the Roman empire. If someone wants that, CK2 has them covered already.

A new Byzantium should be satisfied with having conquered all of Greece, all of Anatolia, and maybe parts of Syria, Bulgaria and Serbia, as far as missions go. If the devs want to really go crazy they can give missions for the conquest/vassalization of all European territory south of the Danube and then have a mission to take the areas around Antioch and Jerusalem (including their provinces of course). That's about as far as the Post-Heraclius territorial amibitions of the empire could extend (with Basil "the Bulgar-slayer" subjugating a large portion of the Balkans and Manuel Komnenos having indirect overlordship over the Principality of Antioch and the kingdom of Jerusalem, for a brief period).

There is great opportunity, as pointed out above by @HypnoSkales , to delve into the final religion of the empire. That is, whether the emperors successfully impose a unification of the churches under Rome or become Orthodox again due to not needing Latin aid anymore. They could lean into the cultural consequences of that (with a more Eastern and Russia-like historical development if Orthodox, and a more Western, Italian-influenced, development if Catholic) as well as the cultural shift that historically happened after the enlightenment with neo-Classicism and Philhellenism. Come to think of it, they could even add some "neo-Orthodox" path, where Byzantium goes Catholic but then joins the reformation as Protestant or Calvinist, having been cut off from its Orthodox roots for too long, though that may be too bizarre to think coherent alt-history scenarios about.

In political terms, the cultural consequences could mean the development of a English Commonwealth-esque attempt at returning to Roman classical republicanism, a bigger emphasis on the spiritual nature of the Imperial throne, leading to something like the Russian Tsardom or post-Meiji imperial Japan, or a more Roman equivalent to the British synthesis of Parliament and crown, with a senate - emperor balancing system. There could also be a more "militarist" empire, like what exists for Prussia or the Teutonic order, where it is purely the army that has legitimacy to crown emperors.

In general, one of the most interesting things about Byzantium was this idea of an emperor who, at least theoretically, was chosen by the citizens, army, senate or any combination of the three, and how that had not been codified as a succession rule up until its end, as well as the simultaneous articulation of the spiritual role of the emperor as "God's viceroy on Earth" and the theoretical ruler of the entire world. Any of these ideas could gain dominance as the codified basis of legitimacy for the country in the new age of constitutions and elaborate legal codes that late-game EU4 is trying to represent.

The Byzantine empire never actually lost its Greek identity, even when calling themselves Roman. In practice, it was Roman governance and Greek culture that existed in Byzantium since, at least, Heraclius, if not earlier. This composite identity still has echoes in modern day Greece, what the devs need to do is research that unique mix and turn it up to 11. This will be highly interesting and engaging in my view.
 
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  1. Exarchates system. (similar to Eyalets, with Exarchate of Carthage and Exarchate of Ravenna as new tags)
  2. Coal in Bolu/Zonguldak province (appears by event in XVIII century) -
  3. Gold in Thessaloniki
  4. Cappadocian Greek culture
  5. In mission tree, after turkish provinces are converted to orthodox, move turkish culture to Byzantine and rename it to "Anatolian" (though not sure about this one)
  6. More greek province naming for provinces outside of Anatolia
  7. Mission tree for Trebizond
  8. If Komnenoi restore Byzantium, change the country flag (the flag is kind of Palaiologos dynasty flag). And purple country map color in that case.
Edit:
9. Despotate of Morea as a byzantine appanage.
 
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  1. Exarchates system. (similar to Eyalets, with Exarchate of Carthage and Exarchate of Ravenna as new tags)
  2. Coal in Bolu/Zonguldak province (appears by event in XVIII century) -
  3. Gold in Thessaloniki
  4. Cappadocian Greek culture
  5. In mission tree, after turkish provinces are converted to orthodox, move turkish culture to Byzantine and rename it to "Anatolian" (though not sure about this one)
  6. More greek province naming for provinces outside of Anatolia
An exarch system Would be amazing to have, I really hope it’s in the game.
 
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I enjoy refusing to accept the fleeing Byzantines. They aren't worth 50 admin power. Sorry not sorry.
I'm not trying to start a fight or diss them, it's just that there's much things to add, so why focus on something so outdated. Like if they release an update for N. Africa, I would hope they would be more creative for content that happened during the game instead of adding a bunch of crap for say, Carthage.
 
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There are two things I would like to see.

A Catholic Path where Byzantium receives aid for reconciliation with Rome, more focused on expansion in the west, and possibly making a claim on the HRR.

Some kind of mission reward that turns Constantinople into an Orthodox Religious center than would convert Christians and Muslims in the Balkans, and Anatolia to Orthodox.

Other minor things could be a slight buff to the Hagia Sophia in general (bonuses are a bit lackluster, and I find it odd that it gives no missionary strength), and some new government reforms to choose from.

One of the most far fetched things they could do is give a event where once you have reclaimed all your starting cores, you can reassert your claim to lesbos, as it's ruler was technically a vassal to Byzantium.
 
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I'm not trying to start a fight or diss them, it's just that there's much things to add, so why focus on something so outdated. Like if they release an update for N. Africa, I would hope they would be more creative for content that happened during the game instead of adding a bunch of crap for say, Carthage.
Or they can add Carthage to the DLC, and we'll all be playing Imperator: Rome like Johan wanted all along.
 
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I enjoy refusing to accept the fleeing Byzantines. They aren't worth 50 admin power. Sorry not sorry.
I don't know if this is a joke that's going over my head or something, but if it's not - the event gives you -10% tech cost, which is 60 of each mana type every time you tech up. So if you tech up even once, you're already turning a profit. Accepting the Byzantine refugees is virtually always correct.
 
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Mamluks and so on.
Mamluks are getting content.
I hope we can reach out to Trebizond if we have an alliance and ask to adopt a member of the Komnenos clan
Or Montferrat and the Palaiologos.


Personally I don't mind more Byzantine content. It's a fun nation and it's popular. They could use some new ideas and a lot of the missions they have now really suck, like the one that forces you to become an elective monarchy. More flavor and what-if's I think could refresh the tag and make it fun again for people who have already done it several times. Maybe some branching missions for either restoring Rome or accepting that Rome is gone with more interest in making Byzantium it's own separate entity.
 
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