There is something appealing to creating a whole armada of troop ships and sending them to an enemy planet, for sure
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What can be done to ground combat?
- Thread starter D Inqu
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Do nothing and leave it as is? I don't think of Stellaris as a combat game and I don't want it to be. I don't want Total War - space edition. I like that the current ground combat mechanics serve to keep fleets tied up and require you to bring defenseless ships to the theater of war if you want to take the war score points offered by invasion. It works as it is.
I also loved those aspects of the game. One of the main reasons I still play EaW is because it has said ground combat, even if it gets stale after a while. And the mods are nice.
There's no way you're going to fit any amount of troops and equipment that would be at all significant in a planetary battle, in some corner of a Corvette or even a Destroyer, even if you allocated the space in the same way you would a normal offensive or defensive system. There just is not enough room in these ships - I wrote this up a while back to try and illustrate this.
I also wrote this up as a suggestion for how to handle armies, although it didn't get much of any positive response. But feel free to cherry pick what you can from it.
I also wrote this up as a suggestion for how to handle armies, although it didn't get much of any positive response. But feel free to cherry pick what you can from it.
Plenty of great ideas here from previous posters.
I concur, armies are a very lackluster overlooked and underloved aspect in a game 4x grand strategy game such as Stellaris.
1st off. Customizable armies. Tech unlocks, either specific or tethered to existing tech research should open up attachments for troop types. Troops can unlock with a "generic" set of traits, or also be completely open to customization by the player as though they were a subset species (kinda like how you can tailor crafte gene's an robotic traits). Mind you these would be minor tweaks, but could flavor flair to suit a players specific species concept. At the very least troop types should have a build interface similar to your ship sets. Renaming, an fitting them in a standard preset based on their role function, so when you build them you don't need to mess with any attachments. Depending on the species and tech unlocks for advanced ground troops should open up the range, number and tech style of attachments allowable per unit.
2nd more troop styles. There's a few mods that add in various new styles of ground troops, from large mechs, to aerospace and the likes, they're simply just a name with set attack strengths an health. No actual mechanics beyond that, or any tech system to enhance or specialize them.
I would love to see additional unit types, such as mobile ground carriers, armored ground transports, armored battle tanks, aerospace, VTOL mechanized infantry, Light and heavy exo warframes, Orbital Drop Assault Troops, Special Force Commandos. As well suitably subsequent variants that would come from species that are of a non-human variety, thinking in the lines of aquatic life, or fungoid, biologically driven gene consuming tyranid/alien type species.
While I would say it would be a bit much to ask for, an quite possibly too much to micromanage. I would like to see an extended ground combat that while it would play out on it's own, but, could have an interactive interface for the player to take a more active hand in determining or speeding up the outcome of the actual fight.
I concur, armies are a very lackluster overlooked and underloved aspect in a game 4x grand strategy game such as Stellaris.
1st off. Customizable armies. Tech unlocks, either specific or tethered to existing tech research should open up attachments for troop types. Troops can unlock with a "generic" set of traits, or also be completely open to customization by the player as though they were a subset species (kinda like how you can tailor crafte gene's an robotic traits). Mind you these would be minor tweaks, but could flavor flair to suit a players specific species concept. At the very least troop types should have a build interface similar to your ship sets. Renaming, an fitting them in a standard preset based on their role function, so when you build them you don't need to mess with any attachments. Depending on the species and tech unlocks for advanced ground troops should open up the range, number and tech style of attachments allowable per unit.
2nd more troop styles. There's a few mods that add in various new styles of ground troops, from large mechs, to aerospace and the likes, they're simply just a name with set attack strengths an health. No actual mechanics beyond that, or any tech system to enhance or specialize them.
I would love to see additional unit types, such as mobile ground carriers, armored ground transports, armored battle tanks, aerospace, VTOL mechanized infantry, Light and heavy exo warframes, Orbital Drop Assault Troops, Special Force Commandos. As well suitably subsequent variants that would come from species that are of a non-human variety, thinking in the lines of aquatic life, or fungoid, biologically driven gene consuming tyranid/alien type species.
While I would say it would be a bit much to ask for, an quite possibly too much to micromanage. I would like to see an extended ground combat that while it would play out on it's own, but, could have an interactive interface for the player to take a more active hand in determining or speeding up the outcome of the actual fight.
I think id love to see stellaris try and put a quasi realistic approach.
From sub orbital combat (fighters vs invaders) and then the establishment of a beachhead and then the fight for planetary control.
No clue how theyd do that but id like to see it personally. It doesnt reasonably add to the game per se. Just add mucro
From sub orbital combat (fighters vs invaders) and then the establishment of a beachhead and then the fight for planetary control.
No clue how theyd do that but id like to see it personally. It doesnt reasonably add to the game per se. Just add mucro
If more player interaction were to be added to ground combat, it should be at the planning stage. Designing armies, maybe giving them orders on how to fight (if ground combat were to be made a bit more complex) and making better use of generals. War should not be a mess of doing 10 things at a time and having to manage both armies and fleets who operate at completely different interface levels at the same time during a war woulddrive too much of a wedge between the slow-paced peace gameplay and fast-paced war gameplay. If there were things one could do doring peace that would be helpful during war, that's another story.
I really want ground combat to stay and made more interesting. You should be able to make an empire/species that excels in ground combat. Focusing on that could be useful in many ways: First of all it could give you a choice to make (we really need more choices in this game). Also, enemies might be reluctant to attack you if they know that it is very difficult and costly to actually conquer you planets, so there is a diplomatic aspect as well. Of course some empires/ species could also excel in offensive warfare. Would be nice also if you could have a species that lives underground and even after the planet is conquered, some of those POPs or armies could still be there making guerrilla actions, reducing that planets resource outputs for example. The conqueror would have to spend much time and resources or use diplomacy to deal with that resistance. Also they could persuade them to join your empire. Then when the war breaks out, those POPs/armies could attack that planet from within if not dealt with before that.
Huge necro!
I've said it before, but only some agree, that the main 'solution' to ground combat is making garrisons necessary. The fact that you can invade an alien planet, *even aliens you plan to exterminate as part of the war goal*, and once you defeat the army the aliens will guard the planet for you, so you only need one invasion army, is the primary issue. You don't need enough armies to hold x planets, you need enough armies to overwhelm the defenses of one planet. Once you need to defend planets, armies have value, and you can implement different virtues that people might care about (like, charismatic means you have less resistance, or the like).
The secondary problem - the game fact that makes garrisoning too much of a PITA to implement - is the fact that you can't *really* attach transports to fleets usefully. They move at different speeds, and follow doesn't work cleanly. Honestly I think it would be better if armies-in-flight were just a little window attached to a fleet, and weren't separate things that could be assaulted without dealing with combat strength.
Until those issues are dealt with tinkering with armies isn't going to help, and nobody is going to want to buy army techs and army powers.
I've said it before, but only some agree, that the main 'solution' to ground combat is making garrisons necessary. The fact that you can invade an alien planet, *even aliens you plan to exterminate as part of the war goal*, and once you defeat the army the aliens will guard the planet for you, so you only need one invasion army, is the primary issue. You don't need enough armies to hold x planets, you need enough armies to overwhelm the defenses of one planet. Once you need to defend planets, armies have value, and you can implement different virtues that people might care about (like, charismatic means you have less resistance, or the like).
The secondary problem - the game fact that makes garrisoning too much of a PITA to implement - is the fact that you can't *really* attach transports to fleets usefully. They move at different speeds, and follow doesn't work cleanly. Honestly I think it would be better if armies-in-flight were just a little window attached to a fleet, and weren't separate things that could be assaulted without dealing with combat strength.
Until those issues are dealt with tinkering with armies isn't going to help, and nobody is going to want to buy army techs and army powers.
There are only two things I think would work
1: remove it and have fleets do the work in some manner
2: make a completely different system specifically for the armies, perhaps using the tile system to conquer the planet.
1: remove it and have fleets do the work in some manner
2: make a completely different system specifically for the armies, perhaps using the tile system to conquer the planet.
It would be nice to see even a basic RTS element layered in to ground combat. It would be a dream to have something akin to Ashes of the Singularity included (a wild dream yes).
Instead of a simple health/morale time ticker, have a ground combat planetary map that ties in built structures into a control/capture point network. Defenders would pre-allocate their garrisoned troops to based starting points, any militia conscription would automatically deploy/defend from the command building/shelter/capital building location.
Fortifications obviously buffing defending stacks of troops with protective/strength bonuses. Attacking forces would enter the ground map at (depending on the size of deployment) one or more established LZs. These could be contested by defending ground forces.
Contesting LZs could have a significant effect on attacking units. Think of it as a logistics supply cutoff, an could act as a counter-siege against the attacking force. Holding LZs would significantly cut off attacking force overall effectiveness (either immediately or accumulated over time?). Lets say they have an immediate reduced overall strength by 25-50%, and the longer the LZs are contested this would increase over time, until the attacking force is essentially starved out from ammunition/food/supplies/reinforcements. This could give an entrenched an weaker defender a sort of guerrilla style approach to holding off a superior force (numerical or technological) an possibly a way to throw off an invasion, or delay for reinforcements.
Allow the defending planet the ability to still provide ground construction and ground unit manufacturing/training. This would would provide some further need for variations to the orbital bombardment ethics, as well some thought into how your species operates under war time rules of engagement. Stationary orbiting fleets would also have more variation to what they target during bombardments, reasons other than simply grinding down fortifications. Disrupting production of defensive build orders, planetary food supplies or training grounds.
This could also broaden some ship style builds with new modules, designed specifically for orbital bombardment. Having just watched SW-TLJ, modules that could be something akin to the Dreadnought an it's twin canons firing upon the ground base, or Bunker busting style lance missiles for breaking fortifications, cluster munition warheads for non-fortified infrastructure saturation. Submunition air bursting canons to suppress ground based aircraft operations.. an so on.
Instead of a simple health/morale time ticker, have a ground combat planetary map that ties in built structures into a control/capture point network. Defenders would pre-allocate their garrisoned troops to based starting points, any militia conscription would automatically deploy/defend from the command building/shelter/capital building location.
Fortifications obviously buffing defending stacks of troops with protective/strength bonuses. Attacking forces would enter the ground map at (depending on the size of deployment) one or more established LZs. These could be contested by defending ground forces.
Contesting LZs could have a significant effect on attacking units. Think of it as a logistics supply cutoff, an could act as a counter-siege against the attacking force. Holding LZs would significantly cut off attacking force overall effectiveness (either immediately or accumulated over time?). Lets say they have an immediate reduced overall strength by 25-50%, and the longer the LZs are contested this would increase over time, until the attacking force is essentially starved out from ammunition/food/supplies/reinforcements. This could give an entrenched an weaker defender a sort of guerrilla style approach to holding off a superior force (numerical or technological) an possibly a way to throw off an invasion, or delay for reinforcements.
Allow the defending planet the ability to still provide ground construction and ground unit manufacturing/training. This would would provide some further need for variations to the orbital bombardment ethics, as well some thought into how your species operates under war time rules of engagement. Stationary orbiting fleets would also have more variation to what they target during bombardments, reasons other than simply grinding down fortifications. Disrupting production of defensive build orders, planetary food supplies or training grounds.
This could also broaden some ship style builds with new modules, designed specifically for orbital bombardment. Having just watched SW-TLJ, modules that could be something akin to the Dreadnought an it's twin canons firing upon the ground base, or Bunker busting style lance missiles for breaking fortifications, cluster munition warheads for non-fortified infrastructure saturation. Submunition air bursting canons to suppress ground based aircraft operations.. an so on.
