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jdrou

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Because they reduce the base stability before modifiers are applied they can save you a lot in the long term though.
Note because of this temples are more valuable the higher your % stab modifiers are. i.e. an innovative-free subjects country benefits more than a narrowminded-serfdom country.
 

unmerged(471650)

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It's quite viable to pretty much ignore trade and focus on production, and in fact if you are playing as a conqueror and usually running around with high infamy, forgot about free trade because you can only trade mercantilist in your own COTs.

But even if you ignore trade, there are a couple of very nice NIs that require it: the one that gives a 10% tech boost (forgot the name) required trade 30, and improved foraging (50
% less attrition) requires trade 53. If you are willing to forego or postpone those, you can set your trade tech slider to zero, lock it, and do just fine.
I haven't played HttT or DW yet but from everything I have read.
I totaly agree with this post and your previous post (cathedrals rock!!)
Planing how to do WC in DW and to h.. with the infamy limit!!!
 

knul

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So I guess I am still misunderstanding the trade line. In my current game, I haven't been building it up, because I have no overseas provinces, and so no tariff income at all (0.00) The second-level building would give me 1 trade income, but the rest of the pre-level-5 buildings are all trade-income modifiers, no? So are you building the line to get to post offices? (would that be the point of building them "everywhere"?) I already have three times the income of, and higher tech levels than, any other nation, so I haven't given trade much priority. (gold and wine, baby)
The trade income modifier is very misleading and most people misunderstand it at first (I did so, too). What the market, post office and other trading buildings do is increasing the trade value of the goods in your provinces. Production income is calculated as follows: Production efficiency * units produced * trade value. So if the trade value of one of your provinces goes up by 10%, your production income from that provinces goes up by 10% as well.

The trade value increase also means that the CoT the province trades in becomes more valuable. Lots of people think that this is the only effect of these buildings (again, a very reasonable assumption) and thus think that the trade buildings are only worth it if you trade. But as you see, this isn't the case.



It's quite viable to pretty much ignore trade and focus on production, and in fact if you are playing as a conqueror and usually running around with high infamy, forgot about free trade because you can only trade mercantilist in your own COTs.

But even if you ignore trade, there are a couple of very nice NIs that require it: the one that gives a 10% tech boost (forgot the name) required trade 30, and improved foraging (50
% less attrition) requires trade 53. If you are willing to forego or postpone those, you can set your trade tech slider to zero, lock it, and do just fine.

It might be a viable strategy, but 1) you miss out on the awesome trade buildings which also increase production income (especially the post office), 2) trade tech will increase your domestic trade as well and 3) with enough custom houses, you can trade in foreign CoTs if your infamy isn't too high.

Even as large empires, my trade income usually comes close to production income or even becomes larger. Ignoring trade income is never a good idea in EU3.
 

unmerged(37198)

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Indeed, the 1-4 trade buildings boost the size of your CoT, which indirectly also boost the tax income produced by the CoT province, sometimes this in turn means that you can get more tax income out of building tax buildings on your CoT and then buff the tax income of the CoT with trade buildings
 
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General War

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Production income is calculated as follows: Production efficiency * units produced * trade value. So if the trade value of one of your provinces goes up by 10%, your production income from that provinces goes up by 10% as well.
Isn't it Production income = Production efficiency * units produced * Price ?

At least that's what wiki says.
http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Production
 

knul

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Isn't it Production income = Production efficiency * units produced * Price ?

At least that's what wiki says.
http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Production

It's a bit more complicated: the trade value depends on the price of the good (a global value), but also on trade value modifies (which are local or nationwide). You can check this in the tooltips of your provinces' production and trade value numbers. I've tested this myself and f.e. markets do increase a province's production income.

Basically, trade value = price * (100% + trade value modifiers).
 

General War

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It's a bit more complicated: the trade value depends on the price of the good (a global value), but also on trade value modifies (which are local or nationwide). You can check this in the tooltips of your provinces' production and trade value numbers. I've tested this myself and f.e. markets do increase a province's production income.

Basically, trade value = price * (100% + trade value modifiers).
Thanks for explanation.


What about overseas provinces? What's the best buildings to focus on? My logic tells me to build those that improve taxes and trade value, and avoid production buildings, except workshops. But then I may be wrong. :)
 

knul

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Thanks for explanation.

What about overseas provinces? What's the best buildings to focus on? My logic tells me to build those that improve taxes and trade value, and avoid production buildings, except workshops. But then I may be wrong. :)

Thank you.

Another thing that people tend to get wrong is that increasing production in colonies is worthwile: production income is just converted to tariff income, so buildings that increase production also increase tariff income.

However, the price of colonial goods go up with the number of trade buildings (especially markets), so trade buildings only become more attractive for colonies.

I should advice building naval or army buildings in colonies, as their gains are heavily penalized. Production and trade buildings are fine, but IMO trade buildings are better than production buildings overall. Except for CoT provinces, having production buildings there for extra taxation beats trade buildings.
 

jdrou

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Production efficiency * units produced * trade value
Also local production efficiency (base 100% modified by a Dock or Counting House) is multiplied separately, correct? So PE * local PE * Units * TV ?
(to update the wiki)
 

knul

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Also local production efficiency (base 100% modified by a Dock or Counting House) is multiplied separately, correct? So PE * local PE * Units * TV ?
(to update the wiki)

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure it's not additive. I will do a test tonight to be sure.
 

glen55

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. . .

I should advice building naval or army buildings in colonies, as their gains are heavily penalized. Production and trade buildings are fine, but IMO trade buildings are better than production buildings overall. Except for CoT provinces, having production buildings there for extra taxation beats trade buildings.

Pretty sure you meant to say you would advise AGAINST building naval or army buildings in colonies.

While that's sound advice, it's often worthwhile to build up ONE land and/or ONE naval province in an overseas area if you own a large block of provinces somewhere. It's nice to be able to build the troops and ships you need locally instead of importing them from the continent. Otherwise, it's wasteful to build military buildings overseas.
 

smellymummy

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imo best build order for the op's situation: tax (constables, workshops), docks then marketplaces. everything else can wait until that base is met everywhere. army buildings are going to contribute very little to the grand scheme of things that early on, however churches/temples can be useful depending on the amount of comets are spotted in america.

definitively go lvl 5 and + on trade, especially for american trade goods, but usually by the time you get there it doesn't really matter much

About 5.2b, in addition to reducing MP greatly, it also leads to fewer sunk ships, and more damaged, in naval combat. Therefore it's a good idea to have at least one big naval base in a given theater.

how exactly does this new change work? naval bases add protection and increased damage output to your ships within supply range?
 

knul

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Pretty sure you meant to say you would advise AGAINST building naval or army buildings in colonies.

While that's sound advice, it's often worthwhile to build up ONE land and/or ONE naval province in an overseas area if you own a large block of provinces somewhere. It's nice to be able to build the troops and ships you need locally instead of importing them from the continent. Otherwise, it's wasteful to build military buildings overseas.

Oops, you're right, I meant against. As for having local production capability, I'm not sure. I usually build non-dock naval buildings in two provinces only anyway and it's a waste to have them in colonies (as ship building times are much higher). For Land buildings I kinda see the benefit of not having to ship troops around.
 

unmerged(180647)

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I wonder it has not been mentioned before: Unique buildings should have the highest priority, followed by manufactories. Only when manufactory costs have risen too much, the player should wait a few years and spend the time increasing the country's manpower. Doing so will lower the building costs for manufactories again.

As was mentioned, magistrates are the usual limiting factor in larger empires. Therefore all should be undertaken to increase the magistrate generation, including:
1) the choice of government form (become empire as soon as you have 30 cities),
2) expansion of the sphere of influence,
3) building colleges in all those high-tax grain provinces,
4) charter a Guild of Saint Luke,
5) centralise as much as possible,
6) stay at / regain +3 stability,
7) be at peace as much as possible.
 

jdrou

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increasing the country's manpower. Doing so will lower the building costs for manufactories again.
This is no longer true in 5.2 .
 

jdrou

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Oh. What a pity!
Well, it's tied to country size instead now so the larger you are the more you can build at base price. Probably makes more sense than basing it on manpower.
 

UniversalWolf

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I've spent many hours reading up on EU3 buildings over the past several years, and I've come to the conclusion that everything is worthwhile and nothing is worthless. Some obviously have priority in obvious circumstances, but anything I can afford to build, I build.