Finland was in the designated sphere of influence of the Soviet Union so the Soviets wanted to make it a puppet state. Everything else is just propaganda and diplomatic justification.
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What are you supposed to do as Finland?
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Historically the Soviets started winning once they had amassed a ton of artillery and men. At that point Finland suffered badly. Their fortifications were smashed and the poor brave soldiers died in large numbers.
It's realistic that Soviet a.i. uses as much force as necessary.
PS: "Tik" has some great videos on YouTube about the Winter War and the final battles of 1944.
It's realistic that Soviet a.i. uses as much force as necessary.
PS: "Tik" has some great videos on YouTube about the Winter War and the final battles of 1944.
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Every great power is guilty of imperialism. Finland, as of now, is without Karelia. And it is doing alright.
It is also helpful to note that Norway was later invaded and occupied by Germany (the operation started a month after Winter War began). So there still remains a threat in Scandinavia (whether it be towards Murmansk or Leningrad). And who knows if Finland has won the Continuation war? It might have asked for a bit more.
Wikipedia:
"By September 1941, Finland had reversed its post–Winter War concessions to the Soviet Union by retaking the Karelian Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia. However, the Finnish Army continued the offensive past the pre-1939 border with the conquest of East Karelia, including Petrozavodsk, as well as halting only around 30–32 km (19–20 mi) from the centre of Leningrad, where they participated in besieging the city by cutting its northern supply routes and digging in until 1944. "
Is Tito's Yugoslavia a puppet state? Is Communist China a puppet state? What about North Korea? In fact, both USSR and China almost went to war at one time.
Geopolitics is very fluid. It rarely cares about friends or enemies, only permanent interest. Whether the will of the people aligned.
What about Japan? Japan was at the end of WW2, the puppet state of USA. It was in the designated sphere of influence.
None of these as none are put in power by a foreign element.
But the leadership of the new communist Finnland would certainly got in power by the Soviets, hence they would be a puppet.
Japan was rather an occupied state with limited autonomy.
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It is doing alright, but could have done better with Karelia, and without an entire generation of men wounded and shellshocked. But it is what it is.
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Because the Americans were in Western Europe. Stalin could get away with directly annexing territories in 1940, not in 1945.
There's nothing similar with the Stalin-era USSR and USA, besides both being nominally federal republics. In Stalin's time all SSRs were effectively under direct rule from Moscow; they had no autonomy whatsoever. Most of the Russian satellite states in Eastern Europe had a similar arrangement (Yugoslavia being the notable exception).
They did actually, particularly in 1939: men advancing in waves against machine guns, climbing over the corpses of their comrades from previous waves. I'm aware of the whole "they didn't mindlessly throw men at the enemy" narrative that's reached nearly "buzzword" proportions among certain people as a result of several well-known military history YouTubers repeating it (MHV, TIK, etc.), but that narrative is not so much based on 1939-40, but on 1941-45.
The point was that Hitler's goal was obviously the eventual subjugation of Poland and living space in the East. The Poles caving in in 1939 would've only delayed the inevitable for them.
While I know you're being sarcastic, in literal terms you are correct: A state of "undeclared war" indeed did not exist throughout the 1920s-30s, nor did Finnish leadership have any illusions of Greater Finland. The state of war that existed between Finland and Soviet Russia 1918-20 as a result of Lenin arming and inciting Finnish Reds to rebellion against the lawful government, was ended 14.10.1920 with the signing of the Treaty of Tartu. Ironically the Finnish volunteer expeditions to aid Finnic peoples in the border regions in 1918-1920 weren't even backed by the government, despite the state of war, even though they could have been.
Beyond a few acts of hostilities from the Russian side involving kidnappings and killings of individual border guards, the border was peaceful and stable 1920-1939.
TIK's videos on Finland have a lot of errors, most of which I've pointed out in the comments section of those videos (with the exception on the Tali-Ihantala video, haven't bothered to comment on that so far).
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Well that applies to USSR too, and now Russia who lost a lot of core territories to independence. The population as a whole is falling too. Russia is no longer the economic and military powerhouse like USSR. But the West/ Nato is always overreacting to their moves, that is borderline paranoia.
I am not a Russian by the way, nor a communist believer.
Edit: Remember that Russia almost collapsed and became a satellite state of West, had Putin not intervened.
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Well the logic of Stalin is simple with regards to Finland. If Baltic states and Eastern Poland can already be annexed by USSR, why should Finland be a special case? After all, all three used to be part of Imperial Russia. The only difference is that Finland is geographically out of the way from a potential conflict between Russia and Germany. So annexing the Karelia region is enough for Leningrad's border security. The northernmost forested territories are of least concern.
Yes, and the narrative is a bunch of lies. There are plenty of sources stating that the soviets used human waves through the entire ww2.
Sources:
1944: >>>the I Battalion of the 5th SS Assault Brigade faced virtual human-wave attacks for days on end.<<<
The German Defeat in the East
Details the massive battles on the Eastern Front from the summer of 1944 until the fall of Budapest in early 1945 The last place a German soldier wanted to be in 1944 was the Russian front. That summer, Stalin hurled more than 6 million men, 9,000 tanks, 16,000 aircraft, and 12,800 guns and...
books.google.pl
German Automatic Rifles 1941–45
This book explores the origins, development, combat use and lasting influence of Nazi Germany's automatic rifles, focusing on the Gew 41(W), Gew 43/Kar 43, FG 42 and MP 43/StG 44. The Blitzkrieg campaigns of 1939–40 convinced many observers that most infantry combat took place at closer ranges...
books.google.pl
Getting away with annexing territories once under Imperial Russia. Also, the 1945 was because Stalin had an arrangement with the Western Allies that Eastern Europe would be under their direct influence. Churchill once mentioned, "Stalin never broke a word to me". The Soviets do not want any more war. They had been bled thoroughly, and the people were tired of it.
"
Churchill, wrote Sulzberger, thought Stalin “a great man, above all compared to Khruschev and Bulganin,” and quoted Churchill as follows: Stalin never broke his word to me. We agreed on the Balkans. I said he could have Rumania and Bulgaria; he said we could have Greece (of course, only in our sphere, you know)."
And not all Eastern Europe territories were successfully "annexed" by the Soviets. Greece has a civil war between communists and rebels backed by British, and the latter won.
All these security paranoia of Stalin were borne out of Western irrational hatred of communists (back to Civil war when they sent the White troops to tear Russia apart). Churchill had an operation unthinkable plan and he hated communism. The USA has their mccarthyism. They were paranoid enough (Truman doctrine) to think that once communism took root in Southeast Asia, it would spread out like wildfire. Turn out they were wrong. North Vietnam won the war, but soon faced their own problems. They even turned against their communist brethren and invaded Laos and Cambodia. China also invaded Vietnam once, while China almost went to a nuclear war with Soviets.
I am not so sure about the Communist rule in Eastern Europe (need to read up sometime), but I doubt they were as worst as you said. The standards of living were definitely poorer compared to the West, no doubt. But Russia has been historically backwards, compared to the West. The people are used to the hardships. And the referendum showed that majority voted for Soviet Union to stay, but it dissolved anyway.
South Korea has a puppet dictator called Syngman Rhee. His regime was marked by corruption and politically instability. Not exactly a saint.
"Because of widespread discontent with Rhee's corruption and political repression, it was considered unlikely that Rhee would be re-elected by the National Assembly. To circumvent this, Rhee attempted to amend the constitution to allow him to hold elections for the presidency by direct popular vote. When the Assembly rejected this amendment, Rhee ordered a mass arrest of opposition politicians and then passed the desired amendment in July 1952. During the following presidential election, he received 74% of the vote.[40] "
"After Rhee's ally Lee Ki-poong won the corresponding vice-presidential election by a wide margin, the opposition rejected the result as rigged, which triggered protests. These escalated into the student-led April Revolution when police shot demonstrators in Masan, which forced Rhee to resign on 26 April and ultimately led to the establishment of the Second Republic of Korea. On 28 April, as protesters converged on the presidential palace, the CIA covertly flew him out to Honolulu, Hawaii, where he spent the rest of his life in exile. He died of a stroke in 1965. "
This applies to the South Vietnam puppet too, who lost the popular support of the peasants.
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I also want to remind people that true Russia history and culture lies in its 400 years of imperial rule with notable enlightened rulers like Peter the Great as well as the orthodoxy church. The Russian empire was wealthy and successful before WW1. So do not let Cold war propaganda distort your view of the country. Just like Nazis are Nazis, Germans are Germans (2 different things).
Soviet Union was just a failed social experiment for 70 years with the intention to create a communist utopia (stateless), starting from Marx. Notable idealogues like Troksky wanted to spread it worldwide like a wildfire. While Stalin was pragmatist and decided to start with socialism in Russia first.
"Russia that you see today is a product of the Communist rule, deformed by the preceding Russian history. It’s not the other way around (Russia deformed by Communists), because not only the entire imperial elite was wiped out, but also the demographic base and material culture of the old nation was intentionally destroyed."
Read more:
www.quora.com
Soviet Union was just a failed social experiment for 70 years with the intention to create a communist utopia (stateless), starting from Marx. Notable idealogues like Troksky wanted to spread it worldwide like a wildfire. While Stalin was pragmatist and decided to start with socialism in Russia first.
"Russia that you see today is a product of the Communist rule, deformed by the preceding Russian history. It’s not the other way around (Russia deformed by Communists), because not only the entire imperial elite was wiped out, but also the demographic base and material culture of the old nation was intentionally destroyed."
Read more:
How has communism influenced the modern Russian culture permanently?
Answer (1 of 14): There are several things I can think of, although there are definitely more. One is the massive reduction of religiosity. Religion played a major role in politics and society before the revolution. Eastern Orthodox Christianity was the dominant religion, closely related to the ...
I've tried investigating this, and received a lot of interesting information about the Winter War and the Continuation War from Fulmen, but thus far, I've not yet found a good way to try and achieve the historical outcomes of the Winter War.
Not without a huge amount of silliness like making the Finns literal supermen, giving them absurd bonuses. Or the Soviets absurd maluses. Or lots of extreme map modification.
so far, the best solution I've found is to reduce the timing of the Finnish surrender event, and adjust the Soviet claims, so that the Soviets don't overrun Finland and annex or puppet it, and don't immediately re-justify another war (which was an issue in the past, not sure if it still is).
Not without a huge amount of silliness like making the Finns literal supermen, giving them absurd bonuses. Or the Soviets absurd maluses. Or lots of extreme map modification.
so far, the best solution I've found is to reduce the timing of the Finnish surrender event, and adjust the Soviet claims, so that the Soviets don't overrun Finland and annex or puppet it, and don't immediately re-justify another war (which was an issue in the past, not sure if it still is).
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Yes, they should have some kind of Motti national modifier I think. Or maybe some kind of new frontline infiltration stealth mechanic that allows them to attack and not be attacked back. Or pass through frontlines and surround the enemy and strike from other sides. Maybe only small Finnish Divisions could do this though not big ones.
Or maybe some kind of special attack which disables one or more of the Battalions inside an enemy Division. Because they're surrounded and cut off and can't do anything. The Devs shouldn't be afraid to customize nations.
Edit: Just thought of Ski Battalions. They should be added. Maybe these Ski Battalions would be the ones with the special attack ability.
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All that, plus make winter in northern climates at least, much more brutal in game, especially on offensive forces. It might go a long way into simulating the reality that occurred. Right now, not even @Louella can make the game recreate the Winter war.
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That will make the game probably twice as challenging though. Imagine not able to attack in winter as Germany... All the frostbite casualties...
Edit: Can have winter upgrades to mitigate that.
I believe winter attrition in this game only affect state controller, not owner. So the divisions in Canada will not be affected..
Well, we want to prevent the soviets from outnumbering the Finn's too bad, right? So decrease the infra levels to decrease supply count?
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