Ah woe, we are but the kicking stool of the world.
Dont act like you dont deserve it.
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What are the top badass countries of WW2?
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Dont act like you dont deserve it.
Then you also have to give credit to the Polish, Czech and British troops and the Royal Navy that undertook the operation to evacute and replace the Australians in Tobruk while it was still under siege.
How do you measure this?
And curious what % of people are just saying their own countries.
And curious what % of people are just saying their own countries.
I was joking when I said "woe" but your remark made it serious again damned quick. A little unnecessary I think. I know Britain did objectional things at times - especially in the name of empire - but there aren't many major players of World War Two that can really take the moral high ground. All countries made mistakes, and many countries committed questionable acts, either then or at other times. The standards and attitudes of today were not the standards and attitudes of the 30's and 40's; the countries behaved differently in ways that would not be considered ok today (usually rightfully) but were more acceptable then. So be careful.
And at least in regarding the UK's war record: Not perfect I'll grant, but holding out against Germany from beginning to end, sacrificing everything to keep the cause going, destroying it's own world power status in the process -and after - I don't think Britain DOES deserve to be kicked, not for that anyway. The war made a couple of countries I could name, but it broke Britain. For God's sake, Britain stayed on rations until the 1950s! That's how bad it got. Other countries, who were on the receiving end of offensives, suffered more damage and horror, of course, - but they also got more help rebuilding afterwards. Despite also suffering bombing damage (that was still not fully repaired even into the sixties), and having destroyed it's economy, Britain did not get the same kind of help that the likes of Germany or Japan received - indeed, even as it struggled itself Britain still contributed aid to those former axis countries. So maybe kick slightly less hard? Just a thought.
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For the record, if I was not to vote for Britain, I think I would say...France.
Seriously, ignore 1940. I am talking about how the Free French persevered overseas under British/Allied command and never gave up the fight, how the Resistance continued the struggle under an occupation of oppression, despite terrible retaliations against their friends and loved ones. Very brave. Very brave indeed.
Seriously, ignore 1940. I am talking about how the Free French persevered overseas under British/Allied command and never gave up the fight, how the Resistance continued the struggle under an occupation of oppression, despite terrible retaliations against their friends and loved ones. Very brave. Very brave indeed.
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Any answer that doesn't include the Royal Imperial Stormtroopers of the British Empire, Canada, is fundamentally wrong!
The British military said "maybe we should try invading Europe before we invade Europe, but we're not ready yet...hmmmm...what to do what to do".
Next thing you know, those crazy canucks are loading up to go conquer Europe like it ain't no thang.
In all honesty, when you're talking about badasses, you're kind of talking about groups punching above their weight. So you pretty much are going to automatically talk about;
Finland
Canada
ANZAC's
Those right there are the three correct answers.
The British military said "maybe we should try invading Europe before we invade Europe, but we're not ready yet...hmmmm...what to do what to do".
Next thing you know, those crazy canucks are loading up to go conquer Europe like it ain't no thang.
In all honesty, when you're talking about badasses, you're kind of talking about groups punching above their weight. So you pretty much are going to automatically talk about;
Finland
Canada
ANZAC's
Those right there are the three correct answers.
I did not make it to be serious. I dont actually think the British people deserve to be a punching bag. It's not like you guys are Welsh or anything.
In truth, there was indeed in France in 1944, several (was it three?) American armies, one British and... a Canadian army. The 1st Canadian army consisted of two Canadian Corps and other allied units that included British I Corps and Polish, Belgian and Dutch divisions - as well as, if I remember correctly - even a Czeck division. The Canadian Army truly was the "Allied" army, more than any other. A large contingent of Canadians were on the Italian front too, fighting with the British 8th Army - the 1st Canadian Division and - erm, the 1st Canadian Tank Brigade (?), or something like that.
.So often overlooked, the Canadians deserve better recognition. Thank you and well done Canada!
Let's not mention Dieppe (sorry Canada, says the Brit).
Canuck, you no doubt already knew all that about your countrymen - and far more - but I just felt the urge to give a nod of respect to the Canadians there.
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Unless you include Poland's eventual liberation of course, which probably would never of happened if Britain had not entered the war after Poland was attacked and then managed to survive it.
The idea of a pact, is not so much a guarantee you are not going to be attacked and occupied but a deterrent to it happening in the first place.
If you want to claim Sovereignty, you have to make some effort to defend it in my opinion.
Unfortunately Britain had Neville Chamberlain as PM at the time of the Munich agreement who was very much a pacifist. There is nothing more dangerous to the world than a pacifist in a position of power when facing aggression, naked or veiled.
If Churchill had been in power at the time I think things would have been different.
It is worth noting however that Britain had no defensive pact with the Czechs (other than being a member of the League of Nations) before the Munich agreement, although France did.
So if you liken a defencive pact to an insurance policy, it was like trying to take out an insurance policy while your house is burning down.
This is one of Chamberlin's quotes:
"How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel that has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war.
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That's the sad and tragic irony that I speak of. Although Britain supposedly entered the war to help Poland, Poland wasn't actually ever liberated. It was instead to fall behind the Iron Curtain. The fate of Poland was merely to have one oppressive occupier replaced with another - that stayed for the next forty five years.
Personally, I have always felt that Britain let Poland down - especially when one considers how the Free Poles helped to defend Britain itself, with Polish pilots fighting in the Battle of Britain. Not that Britain could have realistically done much to stop the Soviets, but still, it wasn't the result Britain was aiming for when it joined the war.
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i'd definitely put japan up in the "top badass countries". While they certainly did things a lot worse than other countries in certain areas that we wont speak about on the forum, and i'm glad they lost, there's a certain tragic feeling to it. For example the Yamato, while dubious in real world effectiveness in the age of the aircraft carrier was still seen as something of national pride being sent on a suicide mission. to know you're doomed but to fight to the last man has its own kind of romantic charm, and the pacific theatre saw plenty of that.
Finland also for sure, a little country holding off the soviet union as they did is extremely badass. Also the UK who had to fight on for years pretty much alone, with the empire under threat from the japanese (fall of singapore and hong kong for example), huge economic costs, the battle of britain (Not that germany was going to win it) in the skies. Fighting against overwhelming odds until the combination of Germany being pushed back by the soviets and the US showing up to liberate france happened.
so those three are my top choices i think. Although i also give a lot of admiration to many of the german old guard officers who were extremely honourable in their conduct and i think they are badass too.
Finland also for sure, a little country holding off the soviet union as they did is extremely badass. Also the UK who had to fight on for years pretty much alone, with the empire under threat from the japanese (fall of singapore and hong kong for example), huge economic costs, the battle of britain (Not that germany was going to win it) in the skies. Fighting against overwhelming odds until the combination of Germany being pushed back by the soviets and the US showing up to liberate france happened.
so those three are my top choices i think. Although i also give a lot of admiration to many of the german old guard officers who were extremely honourable in their conduct and i think they are badass too.
Australia's defence of Tobruk. And fight for the kokoda trail were both heroic and sucessful. I cant think of any moments of ignomy for Australia.
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Yes I agree about Poland's plight being a sad story.
I don't agree that just Britain let them down though.
Every signatory to the League of Nations did, and that is especially true of the neutrals, that instead of immediately declaring war on Germany, and helping with the blockade threatening Germany on all fronts, continued to trade and even cooperate with them in some instances.
The Soviet Union was expelled from the League after it invaded Finland in November. Interestingly, not for invaded Poland in September with Germany.
This is a good indication at that point at how ineffective the League of Nations had become.
Then after the war the UN and NATO signatories let down Poland, not just Britain.
the US for winning a two front war, defeating communism without fighting a war (sorry poland), and funding the reconstruction of europe and japan after the war.
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I think the saying about America was "too little too late". I wouldn't want to disrespect those that fought or those that paid the ultimate price from America but as a nation it was a very reluctant participant in the war. Of course since WWII the free nations of the world have come to owe America a lot for how they have stood up to tyranny.
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I think calling american involvement too little is so incorrect is hilarious.
but don't trust me trust the russians.
http://rbth.com/business/2015/05/08/allies_gave_soviets_130_billion_under_lend-lease_45879.html
but don't trust me trust the russians.
http://rbth.com/business/2015/05/08/allies_gave_soviets_130_billion_under_lend-lease_45879.html
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Have you compared the war reparations Germany payed to USA and the total value of the Marshall Plan ?
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1. Finland (I'm of course biased)
2. Great Britain: pretty sacrificed their empire and superpower status to hold the line against Germany, that by itself is already extremely badass.
3. Germany: as people have said, they pretty much fought the rest of the world for six years. Imagine if they'd used their Reich powers for good.
EDIT: Oh and honorable mention for the people of Poland. Their country may have fallen fast but they sure didn't.
2. Great Britain: pretty sacrificed their empire and superpower status to hold the line against Germany, that by itself is already extremely badass.
3. Germany: as people have said, they pretty much fought the rest of the world for six years. Imagine if they'd used their Reich powers for good.
EDIT: Oh and honorable mention for the people of Poland. Their country may have fallen fast but they sure didn't.
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