What are the top badass countries of WW2?

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keynes2.0

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The point isn't what side they were on but that a lot of the stuff is sensationalized fiction. Wittmann claimed to kill tanks by the dozen where there were no enemy tanks. Enemy at the Gates made a scene of unarmed soldiers being sent into machine gun fire with little to no historical basis.
 

TheRomanRuler

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I still don't understand why you think Germany cared about her allies.... besides the oil in Ploesti and friendship with Mussolini, Nazi Germany hardly cared about Bulgaria-finland-hungary etc unless they would send all of their troops to the eastern front.
On a previous post you mentioned Germany cared to defend other countries even when their capital fell..... which is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard, its obvious that the units stationed in hungary couldn't reach berlin in time or simply didn't have any means to reach there.
Meat shields is a valid military tactic? So eventhough the Germans used Italians-Romanians as a punching bag you still think they cared?
Also don't confuse defending hungary with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spring_Awakening .

Anyways this is off topic last time i'm replying.
Ehm, Germany sent troops that were on eastern front into Hungary before Soviet Union had started their operation that eventually lead to battle of Berlin. Germans had weakened their defenses in Prussia and Poland becouse they believed Soviets would attack from Hungary, Soviet deception worked.
Absolutely meat shield is valid military tactic. You use your weak soldiers to wear down the enemy, and then unleash your counter attack with your best troops. Classical Roman legion had weakest troops in the front, wearing down the enemy, and should enemy break first line there would be stronger and stronger lines waiting in reserve, fresh and ready for battle. Those are just 2 similarish examples, but every single nation uses meat shields. Naturally nobody calls them meat shields, as that would have bad impact on morale. So called "Forlorn hope" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forlorn_hope is another example of meat shield that is valid military tactic. Or do you think it is better to first send your best infantry to capture enemy machine gun positions, and then unleash your second wave of weakest troops in the army against enemy reinforcements?

I tough it was common knowledge that SS was not only seen as most extreme nazis, but also as elite guard of soldiers. Many people joined SS to fight communism, or becouse it was seen as elite unit, not becouse they were die hard nazis. SS just was military organisation, so of course they will follow orders. One of most important things for German soldier is to follow orders, just look at Wehrmacht. SS was just more "elite" AKA fanatical version of Wehrmacht. Early war SS were hand picked soldiers, of whom some could be called "elite". As war continued, quality of both Wehrmacht and SS declined, but SS was still seen as elite organisation. There were even few (i don`t know how often this is) cases were non-SS units or officers would be "promoted" into SS, for example Cossacks, who certainly did not join SS to fight for Nazi ideology. Just becouse SS followed orders to the letter, does not mean they were loyal nazis any more than Wehrmacht. Many were, like Hitlerjugend division, but not all were. Maybe even most were not.

Things are not black and white. Just becouse you don`t like something does not mean you have to always think worst about it. That will eventually bite you back. If humans could be objective, they would think very differently about lot of historical people/events/nations.
 
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keynes2.0

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I tough it was common knowledge that SS was not only seen as most extreme nazis, but also as elite guard of soldiers.

Not only is it not common knowledge, it's not true. The SS was a political miltia. It was not selected for eliteness, it was selected for their zealotry to the Nazi cause.

There is a group of people who really promote the myth that the SS was some sort of elite group. You do not want to be part of that group of people.
 
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Zaku

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That must certainly guarantee that you are objective. Without being objective, you can`t teach or study something accurately. Only scientific way can achieve accuracy, and science mean objectiveness.

What are you even talking about?
The guy I replied to claimed things that are(objectively) not true.
What I said are all facts.

1. History books in schools teach even tragic FACTS.
2. Denying the tragic FACTS have consequences.
3. We are teaching them as a FACT but not shaming today's people for it. Every nation has it's black pages on history.
 
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Loke

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Not only is it not common knowledge, it's not true. The SS was a political miltia. It was not selected for eliteness, it was selected for their zealotry to the Nazi cause.

There is a group of people who really promote the myth that the SS was some sort of elite group. You do not want to be part of that group of people.

If I remember correct, it was considered ELITE at first and declined as time/years went by, some units were just like Militia towards the end(Im talking about the military divisions, the WSS).
 

TheRomanRuler

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Not only is it not common knowledge, it's not true. The SS was a political miltia. It was not selected for eliteness, it was selected for their zealotry to the Nazi cause.

There is a group of people who really promote the myth that the SS was some sort of elite group. You do not want to be part of that group of people.
That must be why it was so multi ethnic and had people from all over the world join it. And largely, it was not "selected", people had to volunteer (or be conscripted later). For some motive for volunteering was that they were fanatical nazis, others wanted to fight communism that even allies saw as a threat.

if you read my post, you will know that i did not say that SS were actual elite unit. With quotation marks they were though.
 
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Scutatus

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I disagree with you on the penultimate sentence. It's not these soldiers' fault that they were born on the wrong side. Yes, it is fortunate that the Allies won the war, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't respect their enemies' bravery (without quotation marks), and self-sacrifice.

Indeed, a faction/army can be morally wrong - but still have impressive admirable combat qualities. The Romans, Alexander the Great and Napoleon were all imperialists and/or oppressive - yet for their military achievements they still remain commonly admired and considered "bad ass."
 
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TheRomanRuler

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What are you even talking about?
The guy I replied to claimed things that are not true. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am just pointing out that if you put people into jail for denying something ever happened, you can`t be objective about it. I am just pointing a flaw, i am not saying you are wrong or right.
 
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Zaku

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I am just pointing out that if you put people into jail for denying something ever happened, you can`t be objective about it. I am just pointing a flaw, i am not saying you are wrong or right.

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the law. Even if you don't agree with the law you need to comply with it. (if you live in the EU)
I used that law as an example to refute what the OP was suggesting.
 

keynes2.0

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That must be why it was so multi ethnic and had people from all over the world join it. And largely, it was not "selected", people had to volunteer (or be conscripted later). For some motive for volunteering was that they were fanatical nazis,

Yes, that's exactly right. Fanatical nazis joined the SS, including non-german fanatical nazis.

I'm glad to see you understand it now.
 
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Tharkun

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Top 5:
1. Germany for going to war against THE WORLD and almost winning.
2. Japan, for the unmatchable spirit of her soldiers and the admirable defense of their country and way of life.
3. Greece, for shaming the Italian Army, delaying the launch of barbarosa and losing 11% of its total population in the process.
4. Finland, for overcoming the Soviet blight.
5. USSR, for playing the West like fools and the badassery of the common Russian soldier.

Worst 4:
1. Denmark, for surrendering to a motorcycle collumn.
2. Norway, for Quisling.
3. US, for their severe lack of generalship and below average soldiers, and compensating that with sheer weight of metal.
4. Britain, for taking the wrong side, being mediocre in everything and losing an empire in the process.

The rest are also-runs.
 
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Scutatus

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Top 5:
1. Germany for going to war against THE WORLD and almost winning.
2. Japan, for the unmatchable spirit of her soldiers and the admirable defense of their country and way of life.
3. Greece, for shaming the Italian Army, delaying the launch of barbarosa and losing 11% of its total population in the process.
4. Finland, for overcoming the Soviet blight.
5. USSR, for playing the West like fools and the badassery of the common Russian soldier.

Worst 5:
1. Denmark, for surrendering to a motorcycle collumn.
2. Norway, for Quisling.
3. US, for their severe lack of generalship and below average soldiers, and compensating that with sheer weight of metal.
4. Britain, for taking the wrong side, being mediocre in everything and losing an empire in the process.
5. Italy, for... well we all know why.

The rest are also-runs.

Wow. Really? There are at least three highly inflammatory entries in that list that really do not bare up to the reality of events. I'm not sure many would agree with you. But you are entitled to your opinion of course.
 
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Tharkun

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Wow. Really? There are at least three highly inflammatory entries in that list that really do not bare up to the reality of events. I'm not sure many would agree with you. But you are entitled to your opinion of course.
Maybe no5 (Italy) was inflammatory. I edited that out because I don't really believe that anyway. The rest are not inflammatory by any standard.
 
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Scutatus

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Maybe no5 (Italy) was inflammatory. I edited that out because I don't really believe that anyway. The rest are not inflammatory by any standard.
Of course they are.

Saying Britain was on the wrong side and mediocre in all things and criticising them for losing their empire?! (I'm not saying Britain was perfect, but it wasn't as bad as you make out).

Saying the US forces lacked good soldiers and generals?

Criticising Denmark for surrendering when all they had was a division or so of troops?

You are very close to being a Troll with these remarks.

If this is what you truly believe then I must say, you have a very...unique perspective.
 
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keynes2.0

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It's the HOI forums, you have to expect some people here to think that the Nazis are just misunderstood.
 
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Scutatus

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So which is it?

Hard to say. it depends if the post was genuine opinion, or just posted to stir things up. It's difficult to tell. To be honest,I find it difficult to believe someone could truly believe ALL of those remarks with genuine sincerity. Do you really believe all of that? For real?