What are the most difficult early game wars?

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bly08

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Preferably ones that do not involve alliance RNG or exploits, but are needed for achievements or are historical wars, and winnable with micro/going over force limit.

Ones I can come up with:

- Gold Rush vs. Muscovy
- Manchu vs. Ming
- No exploit Byzantium

What else?
 
Last edited:

TheMeInTeam

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What are "exploits"?

Some other tough early game wars:

- Novgorod vs Muscovy
- Anybody near Ottomans vs Ottomans
- England vs France (attempting PU)
- Kongolese minors vs Kongo (you will likely be badly outnumbered and attrition is often 4% due to terrain + many NIs there)
- Central African tech vs Kilwa
- Khmer vs Ayuthaya
- Norwegian war for independence w/o support

Lots of minors can get into bad wars easily, too.
 

YuriiH

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- Gold Rush vs. Muscovy
A hundred times no! Maybe it was the easiest war from the harder ones that I've ever fought!
Just conquer (don't raze yet) Ryazan + Odoyev / Gazi to embrace feudalism, then raze + release Ryazan and fight defensively around their fort in steppes. You obliterate Muscovians and their vassals with your plains-shock allowing you to have max warscore, then siege Moscow => win.
 

atwix

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manipur versus any and all neigbours one after the other, or ALL at once if you are unlucky!
 

bly08

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A hundred times no! Maybe it was the easiest war from the harder ones that I've ever fought!
Just conquer (don't raze yet) Ryazan + Odoyev / Gazi to embrace feudalism, then raze + release Ryazan and fight defensively around their fort in steppes. You obliterate Muscovians and their vassals with your plains-shock allowing you to have max warscore, then siege Moscow => win.

On 1.22 Muscovy always allies Denmark early, sometimes before Dec. 11.
 

Robert de Bruce

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I find this difficult, because there are nearly no wars that are necessary in a way they are very hard. So it is nearly always a matter of skill. What I can imagine are several wars for independence, especially if it is not easy to gain supporters. Most I haven't tried myself yet:
- Sukhotai war for independence
- Navarra vs Aragon subjugation
- Tunis minors vs Tunis
- Mogadischu war for independence
- Masovian war for independence
- Provence vs Burgundy
- Bretagne vs France if early burgundian inheritance
- Ethiopian vassal war for independence
- Muscovian vassal war for independence
- Ardalan war for independence etc etc. I better stop now
 

TheMeInTeam

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what do you mean by inheriting a war?

You ally someone like Morocco, declare on another Tunisian minor, let Tunis declare on the minor, then vassal it.

You become war leader of a defensive war. You can call your allies, as can the attacker...if any are willing to join an offensive war in this scenario (usually no). This concept can also be applied to vassaling nations that a non-tributary attacks to call in Ming if you are a tributary, and if you're not careful it can work against you on rare occasions.
 

Foefaller

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I would say Tabarestan, but you can see Ming. (persia achieves)

I actually did that w/o MoH, and if the Black Sheep Turks guarantee your independence in their feud with the Timurds (which is what happened in my case) you get pretty much the same result. The silk in Tabarestan helps a lot with going over FL, which I used to attack and vassalize Shirvan, once Qara Qoyunlu decided to give me MA. eventually got an alliance with them as well to split Georgia (that I had to break the moment the Ottomans wardeced them) and while the Timurds tried to take advantage of that, by the time they decided to attack me, I could sustain an army far enough above my FL that I was able to beat theirs in the mountain regions thanks to the massive penalties hordes get there. Once you do that, you're pretty much set, as the Timurds quickly go into a death spiral of revolts thanks to war exhaustion and diminishing Horde Unity... In fact, I spend the last 20-odd years of that achievement fighting Persia to form Persia, thanks to the fact the game starts with their cores existing.

'Course, that's not going to work in a few weeks when the whole region gets reworked in the next update, but I glad I took the effort to earn it now, will see how it is afterwards.
 

Foefaller

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As to the OP, I'd personally add Mogolia's independence war from Oriat if you're going for Great Khan with them instead of Great Horde. Most of the times I've attempted it, Oriat gets 2-3 allies before I can convince even one other nation to support my independence, so either I have to hope I can divide and conquer, or try using my Tribal estate to get a 15+ army asap to declare war on Dec. 12 before he gets any allies... Though if you pull that off, hordes being hordes it's pretty easy to snowball after that.
 

Firefan404

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What are "exploits"?

Some other tough early game wars:

- Central African tech vs Kilwa

Well with Mutapa or Butua and some allies it's not that hard...

If you are willing to go into blast from the past:

Patch 1.3: Chimu vs Inca
Patch 1.3 - 1.5: Ashanti vs Mali
Patch 1.4: Mongolia vs Oirat Horde

Chimu vs Inca had a long discussion of whether it was even possible before people finally found a few tactics that made it difficult but attainable.

Chima vs Inca used to be considered as the hardest one wasn't it ? I mean before COP
 

Dominion

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Albania vs Venice for the HRE opening.

Boatload of maneuvering and I only won three out of five times.

Lots of fun though. Wasn't able to play above speed1.