What are the interests for new nations in AOD?

[Commander666]

I never liberate Mengkukuo for Japan I would go for u87 or a japan pro CHI instead.

So, when Japan player gets the event "Create Mengkukuo" what do you do? Do you just select "no"? It has been a while, and I am not sure, but I don't remember having any choice to "not" create Mengkukuo when that event came. Is there a choice? Or are you making the above quote has how you would mod your game?

Also, which puppet is it that is U87?

And who do you mean with "or a japan pro CHI instead". Is this actually relating to who you would select regarding the Fall of the Dragon event resolution?

 

[Pioniere]

So, when Japan player gets the event "Create Mengkukuo" what do you do? Do you just select "no"? It has been a while, and I am not sure, but I don't remember having any choice to "not" create Mengkukuo when that event came. Is there a choice? Or are you making the above quote has how you would mod your game?

Also, which puppet is it that is U87?

And who do you mean with "or a japan pro CHI instead". Is this actually relating to who you would select regarding the Fall of the Dragon event resolution?

"or a japan pro CHI instead" Sorry thats an error I mean to say a china that is pro Japan. The nationalist china liberated or puppeted by Japan.
Yes you can just go for no to setup Mengkukuo in that event.
U87 is the China-Nanjing a japanese puppet regime where Wang Jingwei was "hos". But other nations in AOD can setup the u87.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorganized_National_Government_of_the_Republic_of_China

The mod I refear to are just ideas for the moment. Formosa could have been a good candidate.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

In fact, the game has room for not just Formosa but the alternative of Taiwan depending on what year it is.

What is relatively commonly know as Taiwan is the Republic of China after losing the mainland to the communists. It already has a few tech teams with start year after the historic end of the civil war.

Now I wonder what magic Poiniere might have for Tasmania which suffers from the typical AoD late game bad scripting so that the relatively big nation of Australia can't even run resource convoys to there if AUS gets annexed, and then liberated. The liberator gets saddled with yet another totally useless resource depot (Tasmania) cluttering his convoy listing.

There are 2 approaches. Ingame it is possible to gift transport divisions to Australia and use military control to convert them to convoy transports. That works already.

Another option is to adapt the already existing revolt events. Currently those create a bit of dissent for the new nation and maybe give it some offmap ic and offmap resource. Changing them to adding a few transports should be no big struggle. Certainly that makes tons of sense for India, Malaysia and Australia.

 

[Commander666]

Yes you can just go for no to setup Mengkukuo in that event.

OK.

So, as regards your earlier, "I never liberate Mengkukuo for Japan I would go for u87 instead" is 2 completely different things that have no relationship to each other. It isn't like you go for U87 because you didn't liberate Meng, but rather you just don't liberate Meng (period). And of course you try to win in China, and choose U87 when the Dragon Falls.

U87 is the China-Nanjing a japanese puppet regime where Wang Jingwei was "hos". But other nations in AOD can setup the u87.

Yes I am familiar with China-Nanjing which I also prefer.

 

[Commander666]

What is relatively commonly know as Taiwan is the Republic of China after losing the mainland to the communists.

I am aware of the history and the Nationalist Chinese (ROC) retreating to Taiwan. But I never had a game where Taiwan (Formosa) was anything other than Japan controlled or given to Chinese puppet that Japan establishes with Fall of Dragon.

For ROC to occur firstly Japan must lose, then the Chinese Civil War needs be won by the Communist Chinese, and finally the Nationalist Chinese retreat to Formosa and set up Taiwan.

It already has a few tech teams with start year after the historic end of the civil war.

OK, didn't know that. But just how can one get that country liberated? If USA takes Formosa from Japan, that probably means N. China didn't lose... so no Taiwan will follow.

I can't see it happening unless it completely follows history after end of WW2.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

OK, didn't know that. But just how can one get that country liberated? If USA takes Formosa from Japan, that probably means N. China didn't lose... so no Taiwan will follow.

I can't see it happening unless it completely follows history after end of WW2.

In order to liberate Republic of China one needs to have territories near Nanjing. So such a Taiwan could not be liberated, only Formosa could be liberated.

 

[Pioniere]

OK.
So, as regards your earlier, "I never liberate Mengkukuo for Japan I would go for u87 instead" is 2 completely different things that have no relationship to each other. It isn't like you go for U87 because you didn't liberate Meng, but rather you just don't liberate Meng (period). And of course you try to win in China, and choose U87 when the Dragon Falls.

Well I do not liberate Mengkukuo because I want the former Shanxi area for a pro Japanese China whenever that is u87 or the nationalist china under Japan.

You cannot choose u87 when the Dragon falls event if that is what you mean. I think the options where: a, japan annexes all of china, b, N. china becomes a puppet to Japan. C, Japan has many puppets warlords and the n. china.

IIRC the event name is the Chinese Question. I also think the event will not fire if you liberate u87 in the first place.
The China-Nanjing has gotten a lot updates so it’s an useful alterative and even if n. china has some stronger tech teams

 

[Commander666]

Got it. Thanks.

Is having the extra army of Mengkukuo to help Japan win against China not better than no extra troops, but reserving those extra provinces to add to a bigger China puppet (u87) once you won the war?

I assume you liberate u87 when you conquered N. China, right? So you are actually missing Menkukuo's small army to help you win. I usually use them to advance the northern flank, so saving some Japanese divisions to be elsewhere.

I think once Japan wins and reorganizes the Chinese as puppets given the choices, I fail to see how the difference between one China puppet or another really makes much difference to rest of game. Either way, Japan's new puppet will spam +200 infantry. Certainly the bigger puppet will spam the most.

But I would be more inclined to make choice based on which China puppet has the better leaders. In fact, I will often chose the warlords option only to minimize total new divisions as I find far to many to use effectively. I don't care to transport +100 divisions to fight in America as the Chinese leaders are too limited. I think about 60 well led divisions (which any China combination is capable of) suffices to finish USA/Canada.

Anyway, thanks or the chat and especially your dedication to keep upgrading AoD.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Is having the extra army of Mengkukuo to help Japan win against China not better than no extra troops, but reserving those extra provinces to add to a bigger China puppet (u87) once you won the war?

The advantage of reserving those provinces for U87 is minuscle. On balance using Mengkukuo is much better.

I assume you liberate u87 when you conquered N. China, right?

Once China is conquered in the sense that it can be annexed liberating U87 makes no sense because liberating Republik of China is possible. In fact once Republik of China does no longer exist it is impossible to liberate U87.

U87 is to be liberated when the majority of China is yet to be conquered. So the Shanxi area and the Nanjiang area are conquered and mabe a bit more, but not much more. Once China is divided in a such a manner it can be conquered much more easily. The regions of economic qorrth are exploitet much better and no partisan activity hampers japanese troops from progressing.

U87 has a severe lack of leaders. Republic of CHina however has several hundred leaders, it will not run out of leaders despite its capacity to field many infantry divisions.

 

[Pioniere]

U87 has a severe lack of leaders. Republic of CHina however has several hundred leaders, it will not run out of leaders despite its capacity to field many infantry divisions.

We have updated the u87 in 2016 I think it has around 427 leaders.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

We have updated the u87 in 2016 I think it has around 427 leaders.

428. In addition to the proper file there is an additional file leadersU87.csv with only 15 leaders. Thus my confusion.

 

[Commander666]

The advantage of reserving those provinces for U87 is minuscle. On balance using Mengkukuo is much better.

My point exactly.

U87 is to be liberated when the majority of China is yet to be conquered. So the Shanxi area and the are conquered and mabe a bit more, but not much more. Once China is divided in a such a manner it can be conquered much more easily. The regions of economic qorrth are exploitet much better and no partisan activity hampers japanese troops from progressing.

Perect point. Wonder why I never saw the option to liberate that before when at early stage of war? I do always include the amphibs to hasten China's fall. But I start at Hainan and then work up the coast. So I am last to amphib Shanghai. I do this to create a huge pincer.

Once I reach Nanjiang most the Chinese are pocketed when their capital relocates. By then my GAR in are in China also so all is green. Next the Dragon falls.... so I guess I never saw this other great choice as you eloquently described it above. U87 used as you describe is very much not about adding armies but having excellent situation of what is conquered (no partisans, etc). Yah, Mengkuko's small army is the most important thing for me as they close the pincer at the top.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

U87 used as you describe is very much not about adding armies but having excellent situation of what is conquered (no partisans, etc).

That is true if your conquest is a fast success and that in all likehood is desirable. In der mid run however U87 will add significant amounts of troops that would make it easier to take the remains of China.

One can image a scenario where liberating U87 helps to free up troops to battle the allies in the pacific ocean and elsewhere.

 

[Emmanuel_M]

Not interested at all

However an update to existing very minor nations, (especially liberated colonies) would be welcome. Having Indonesia, one of the most populated countries on earth, have almost zero MP is beyond idiotic.

I wouldn't mind a tradeoff where liberated nations would get an event providing very significant manpower boosts in their CORE porvinces but a 2 year delay (or far more) in reasearch so that they can field big quantitis of low tech infantry (a reasonnable assumption)

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Having Indonesia, one of the most populated countries on earth, have almost zero MP is beyond idiotic.

I would like to point out that Indoneasia has 0.1 offmap manpower. That is 72 manpower worth 6 Inf-Art after 720 days.

 

[Commander666]

I would like to point out that Indoneasia has 0.1 offmap manpower. That is 72 manpower worth 6 Inf-Art after 720 days.

Uhm... 2 years to raise up 6 divisions is nothing to exult about. Actually, I can't really confirm the above facts which seem to differ from the game I just played. As USA, I liberated Indonesia in Jan 1946. It started with 23 MP and immediately built 1 line of INF/ART, with the 3rd unit completed July 1946. At that point it reached near 0 MP. Maybe Pang means in another 1 1/2 years it might built 3 more divisions? Checking further along, the fourth division completes late 1946. Again no more MP then.

Lack of enough MP is definitely the problem, and given we are discussing Indonesia which had a population of 87.79 million in 1960 (can't find figure for 1946 but it was probably ~50 million) the fact that Indonesia can only raise 6 divisions in 2 years is indeed very wrong.

Having Indonesia, one of the most populated countries on earth, have almost zero MP is beyond idiotic.

I agree the AoD MP figures are as you colorfully state, but your full statement is not really correct. At no time from 1960 (as far back as I can find figures) has the population of Indonesia even come close to the population of the USA. And best I can see, Indonesia's population always is about half of India's while being nearly triple the Philippines. Indonesia is really only one of the world's most "crowded" nations.

But if we consider the 100+ infantry (half brigaded) that puppet India builds in about a year and the fact that Philippines builds identical to Indonesia the first 3 divisions and has +0.9 MP/day and starts with 15 MP, then we see there is huge distortion between countries - with Indonesia getting thoroughly shafted. Definitely Indonesia needs fixing.

 

[Pioniere]

I plan to make north american nation that claims the midwest and the notrhen eastcost of usa. It can be puppet for GER,SOV and eventuelly Italy. In this way the player can dismatel the usa and liberate CSA,CLA,TEX and the new "American State(u07)" It will not be part of the 1.11 patch.

I will be using flag A
here are the infatry models:

Even if the puppet is coined at the axis and soviet any country that controls the provinces can set up this “nation” if it likes.

I think that Indoneasia could have had 5 in manpower and this would not have made much different for Holand in the start of the war, but its not my cal.

 

[Adolphin]

And what's the incentive to release this puppet instead of just the regular US?

 

[Pioniere]

Somewhat the same reason for liberating the other regional power in America like battling partisans, building support units for land/sea and other puppet nation duties. If u07 is liberated you loses that chance to setup usa when its annexed. However, as I said if you want dismantle the USA this puppet might be an option.
Some players would rather liberated usa instad of the others america nations.
When I play as Germany and take over uk I always liberated u73 to strengthen the axis influence in the west. The American State can be used as buffer and means of control as stated, but USA puppet would always be superior. You could say that U07 can be what U73(england) is for UK, but a weaker option.

 

[Commander666]

Are the above screen shots for real or just a DEV generated example? Can't figure out why the UK has nearly beaten the USA by 1940. Arsenal of Democracy?