What are the best occupation division templates for compliance and why?

[Zeprion]

The math, like many things in Hearts of Iron 4, seems to be not simple enough to understand intuitively while playing.

As far as I understand, and I could be wrong.

Each occupied region has a score, I don't know exactly what it is so I will call it score. The score revolves around 1.00 for each region. It can be 0.15 which is great or 1.80 which is terribly.

When the score is below 1.00 it means the garrison division is stronger than the insurgency and the ressistance is kept in check.

When the score is above 1.00 it means the garrison division is weaker than the insurgency, you take manpower damage and the ressistance is growing.

I usually make cavalry regiments, as they have the best suppression, with military police and mechanized cars for a bit of armor to avoid too much manpower damage.

Depending on the level of ressitance I have divisions of:
- 10 cavalry
- 5 cavalry
- 1 cavalry

When the region is just occupied, I go 10 cavalry. When the region is almost 100% compliant I go 1 cavalry.

Is this a good tactic? Do you have a better suggestion? What garrison division templates are you using?

I don't have the La Ressistance DLC.

 

[SophieX]

I assume you play without LaR ?

 

[Zeprion]

Yes, I only have the first 4 DLCs.

 

[Dlin369]

As far as I know they'll automatically assign off-map divisions to garrisons in fractions proportional to the amount of suppression a full division of a suppression template would provide.

Thus, there should be no difference between 10, 5 or 1 pure cavalry. However, if you add military police support companies, then it's advantageous to have bigger divisions around 1 MP company

 

[CraniumMuppet]

The math, like many things in Hearts of Iron 4, seems to be not simple enough to understand intuitively while playing.

As far as I understand, and I could be wrong.

Each occupied region has a score, I don't know exactly what it is so I will call it score. The score revolves around 1.00 for each region. It can be 0.15 which is great or 1.80 which is terribly.

When the score is below 1.00 it means the garrison division is stronger than the insurgency and the ressistance is kept in check.

When the score is above 1.00 it means the garrison division is weaker than the insurgency, you take manpower damage and the ressistance is growing

no that's not it. states has a resistance target, between 0%-100%. Resistance will creep towards that target slowly. The higher your resistance the higher chance of penetration and damage to garrisons. Things like stability, VPs, resistance spread, operations, compliance, peace status and modifiers influence resistance target.

Depending on the level of ressitance I have divisions of:
- 10 cavalry
- 5 cavalry
- 1 cavalry

When the region is just occupied, I go 10 cavalry. When the region is almost 100% compliant I go 1 cavalry.

huh? you don't choose how many divisions garrison a state. you assign a garrison template and that's it. u can't have more or less than the required divisions

 

[SophieX]

Yes, I only have the first 4 DLCs.

Ok. Sorry I cannot help you very much; because I can't remember the time without LaR good enough.

 

[CraniumMuppet]

Ok. Sorry I cannot help you very much; because I can't remember the time without LaR good enough.

Resistance/Compliance was part of the free update

 

[Zeprion]

no that's not it. states has a resistance target, between 0%-100%. Resistance will creep towards that target slowly. The higher your resistance the higher chance of penetration and damage to garrisons. Things like stability, VPs, resistance spread, operations, compliance, peace status and modifiers influence resistance target.

I understand that part, but not the part for how a garrison division keeps the ressitance in check. What makes a cavalry battalion different from an infantry battalion? Or a 7/2 infantry division different from a 7/2 cavalry division?

As far as I know they'll automatically assign off-map divisions to garrisons in fractions proportional to the amount of suppression a full division of a suppression template would provide.

Thus, there should be no difference between 10, 5 or 1 pure cavalry. However, if you add military police support companies, then it's advantageous to have bigger divisions around 1 MP company

huh? you don't choose how many divisions garrison a state. you assign a garrison template and that's it. u can't have more or less than the required divisions

This is where I have a hard time understanding the system.

I don't understand what @Dlin369 means by the first paragraph. If I send a cavalry division of only 1 battalion template to a region. Will the game automatically send as many cavalry divisions of that type are needed to keep the ressitance in check? If that is true, then why that 1.00 score increases by a lot and shorty after I get ressitance if I choose a division template of only 1 cavalry battalion for a newly occupied region?

@CraniumMuppet I was actually talking about the cavalry regiments inside different garrison division templates. I switch between templates of 10 and 1 battalions to always be below 1.00 score. From what you say, it also seems that the game automatically assigns the proper number of divisions. When why would that 1.00 score increases? Wouldn't 10 cavalry divisions of 1 battalion each be the same as 1 cavalry division of 10 battalions?

Ok. Sorry I cannot help you very much; because I can't remember the time without LaR good enough.

It's okay, I appreciate that you had the initiative to help me.

 

[SophieX]

Resistance/Compliance was part of the free update

But the time between installing the free update and buying and installing LaR were only a few days for me.

 

[CraniumMuppet]

I understand that part, but not the part for how a garrison division keeps the ressitance in check. What makes a cavalry battalion different from an infantry battalion? Or a 7/2 infantry division different from a 7/2 cavalry division?



This is where I have a hard time understanding the system.

I don't understand what @Dlin369 means by the first paragraph. If I send a cavalry division of only 1 battalion template to a region. Will the game automatically send as many cavalry divisions of that type are needed to keep the ressitance in check? If that is true, then why that 1.00 score increases by a lot and shorty after I get ressitance if I choose a division template of only 1 cavalry battalion for a newly occupied region?

@CraniumMuppet I was actually talking about the cavalry regiments inside different garrison division templates. I switch between templates of 10 and 1 battalions to always be below 1.00 score. From what you say, it also seems that the game automatically assigns the proper number of divisions. When why would that 1.00 score increases? Wouldn't 10 cavalry divisions of 1 battalion each be the same as 1 cavalry division of 10 battalions?


It's okay, I appreciate that you had the initiative to help me.

you pick a garrison template. that template will be used to garrison provinces. you do not need to train those divisions or move them to a province, the game does it of screen.

the number you might be seeing is how many divisions the game is using to suppress resistance in a state.

For example if you have a cav garrison template with 2 width the game might say "you need 5 divisions to suppress resistance". the game automatically fills that for you.

if you increase the same template to 10 width you will get the same result, but now you only need 1 division of that template to fulfil the same stuff. width only matters if you stack it with MP. Otherwise it does not matter.

Suppression value and hardness is the most important stats. Stuff like soft attack, entrenchment etc does not matter

 

[ecpgieicg]

See this post and in the same thread these calculations.

 

[Dlin369]

The divisions you have on map don’t affect suppression at all - garrisons are offmap divisions you can interact with in the resistance interface that automatically generate as you occupy territory

 

[Zeprion]

you pick a garrison template. that template will be used to garrison provinces. you do not need to train those divisions or move them to a province, the game does it of screen.

the number you might be seeing is how many divisions the game is using to suppress resistance in a state.

For example if you have a cav garrison template with 2 width the game might say "you need 5 divisions to suppress resistance". the game automatically fills that for you.

if you increase the same template to 10 width you will get the same result, but now you only need 1 division of that template to fulfil the same stuff. width only matters if you stack it with MP. Otherwise it does not matter.

Suppression value and hardness is the most important stats. Stuff like soft attack, entrenchment etc does not matter

So that score of 1.00 on bottom left when I left click on an occupied region is how many divisions are needed to suppress resistance and the game automatically assigns them?

If that is the case, then why when the score is below 1.00 the ressistance is kept in check, but when the score is above 1.00 I take manpower damage and the ressistance is growing?

Why is there a difference? Wouldn't 10 cavalry divisions of 1 battalion each be the same as 1 cavalry division of 10 battalions? I'm talking about off map garrison divisions.

See this post and in the same thread these calculations.

Thanks for posting that, helped me understand how occupation works better.

Turns out, you don't need huge amounts of suppression, as big as possible doesn't make it better. You just need enough suppression to keep the ressistance in check so you need to be cost efficient with it.

A 1 Cavalry Template which costs 5 Infantry XP seems to be the most basic choice. I will try that in a game and see how it works, maybe that 1.00 score wasn't whether the ressitance is growing or not after all.

For Military Police to be efficient, you need a fully fledged division template including 25 Cavalry or Armored Cars for the best results. The Military Police becomes better than 1 Cavalry battalion template at around 8-14 Cavalry and then goes uphill.

And you only need 2-3 Armored Cars in the Template before adding the Military Police makes it better.

 

[CraniumMuppet]

If that is the case, then why when the score is below 1.00 the ressistance is kept in check, but when the score is above 1.00 I take manpower damage and the ressistance is growing?

damage is based on resistance, garrison supply status and hardness. I don't know exactly what 1 you are refering to, but I assume it's the amount of divisions needed.

I think what you are seeing is that when a state is having lots of divisions assigned to them your resistance might be high or it is a state with lots of vps

Why is there a difference? Wouldn't 10 cavalry divisions of 1 battalion each be the same as 1 cavalry division of 10 battalions? I'm talking about off map garrison divisions

it is exactly the same

 

[Zeprion]

damage is based on resistance, garrison supply status and hardness. I don't know exactly what 1 you are refering to, but I assume it's the amount of divisions needed.

I think what you are seeing is that when a state is having lots of divisions assigned to them your resistance might be high or it is a state with lots of vps


it is exactly the same

So it's the same and that 1.00 score was in fact the number of divisions assigned to the region. I get it now, thanks!

 

[Toybasher]

Yeah supposedly a "Big Chungus" garrison template is better in terms of saving equipment if you're using Military Police.

25 cavalry (fill every possible slot in the division designer with cavalry) and MP support.

This can end up saving you support equipment since less divisions are needed. One Big Chungus garrison is better than several smaller garrisons since the smaller ones might need several divisions, which means you need to spend more support equipment since the cost of MP (40 infantry equipment, 10 support equipment) doesn't scale with the size of the division.

Also note MP gives a bonus to the suppression, so the more suppression already there = even higher benefit from MP. So the bigger the division and the more suppression you're outputting the higher the benefit of military police.

EDIT: My only problem is getting the XP required to edit a template and max it out. Granted resistance is only something to worry about AFTER warfare and thus you have XP, but still.

 

[ecpgieicg]

A 1 Cavalry Template which costs 5 Infantry XP seems to be the most basic choice. I will try that in a game and see how it works, maybe that 1.00 score wasn't whether the ressitance is growing or not after all.

Seems that way for me too. Hope it works for you!

 

[desphorin]

But the time between installing the free update and buying and installing LaR were only a few days for me.

Everything you see in the resistance tab in LaR is the same without LaR, unless you use spies to reduce resistance target/make resistance contact.

(side note: if you see people complaining in the steam store that LaR is shit *just* because of the resistance mechanics, they are idiots.)

 

[Premu]

Yeah supposedly a "Big Chungus" garrison template is better in terms of saving equipment if you're using Military Police.

25 cavalry (fill every possible slot in the division designer with cavalry) and MP support.

This can end up saving you support equipment since less divisions are needed. One Big Chungus garrison is better than several smaller garrisons since the smaller ones might need several divisions, which means you need to spend more support equipment since the cost of MP (40 infantry equipment, 10 support equipment) doesn't scale with the size of the division.

Also note MP gives a bonus to the suppression, so the more suppression already there = even higher benefit from MP. So the bigger the division and the more suppression you're outputting the higher the benefit of military police.

EDIT: My only problem is getting the XP required to edit a template and max it out. Granted resistance is only something to worry about AFTER warfare and thus you have XP, but still.

Actually, my problem is normally to research MP first. There are so many important technologies - fighters, infantry weapons, industry... extra technologies to save some outdated rifles is pretty low on the priority list for me.