The Human wave is best if you have clear strong enemy. The idea in it is to attack, organize, attack, organize. Not even Inflaritation can beat Human wave in a long-scale war if both are equal with troops.
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No big moves before 1942? I hope you're only talking about the techs, because I can think of plenty of big things happening before 1942. Wars in China and Europe, for starters.Lord Finnish said:
Don't overestimate the power of the AI.Jalex said:So playing as the UK unless I take out Japan before 1943 I basically can't?
I thought you said Infiltration was best? Anyway, I'll bite. Infiltration is certainly capable of beating Human Wave, especially if the war lasts for many years.Lord Finnish said:
The two doctrines are quite similar, though Infiltration occasionally has a slighty ORG advantage and a slight MOR disadvantage. The only two years when Human Wave holds a clear advantage are 1937 (HW has 50/80 stats, Infiltration has 50/40) and 1941 (70/100 vs. 60/80). After 1941, Infiltration becomes the clear winner, with its slightly lower moral rating offset by higher organization and a ridiculous night fighting bonus. Unit discounts with Human Wave are only useful if you have an obscene amount of MP to spend on cheap INF divisions (basically if you're China or Russia), while the cost of Infiltration ARM doesn't matter much as INF is the most cost-effective unit in the game.
First post, been hanging round the forums few weeks, learning stuff and reading aars, this thread stirred me into joining.
I was wondering whether anyone else thought that militia is a bad part of the infiltration doctrine. To be honest I barely trust the militia to hold a line, let alone infitrate the enemy. The name to me (and the fact that it gives boosts to marines) would suggest a special forces kind of infantry technique.
Didn't realise till I read above that its a jap tech, which makes a little sense for the militia, but still think that it should be mountain troops instead of militias that get the IC deduction.
Very informative thread, thanks!
I was wondering whether anyone else thought that militia is a bad part of the infiltration doctrine. To be honest I barely trust the militia to hold a line, let alone infitrate the enemy. The name to me (and the fact that it gives boosts to marines) would suggest a special forces kind of infantry technique.
Didn't realise till I read above that its a jap tech, which makes a little sense for the militia, but still think that it should be mountain troops instead of militias that get the IC deduction.
Very informative thread, thanks!
more of a fluff question then anything else, but this seems to be the best place to ask.
in relation with my project http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9199324#post9199324 i need doctrines for the two forces. here are the planned forces for the scenario:
Mercs:
1 HQ ’45 w/Engineer ‘45, 2 Marine ’43 w/ Imp Rocket Arty, 3 Airborne ’43 w/Imp Rocket Arty, 3 Destroyer ’45 w/ Fire Control ‘45, 5 Naval Transports, 5 Air Transports
French:
HQ ’41, 14 Infantry ’18, 1 Cavalry VI, 5 Infantry ’39 w/Basic Arty, 2 Mech ’45 w/Adv SP Arty (late-game French Foreign Legion entry), 3 Naval Transport (late-game French Foreign Legion entry), 1 Light Cruiser ’48, 5 Destroyer ’45, 1 Naval Transport
i basically want the mercs to be an elite infantry force that can stop the french cold 1 for 1 anywhere, with far higher org and morale, while the french are inferior in ability, but have numbers. currently, infiltration and blitzkrieg are the two doctrines i'm considering for mercs, and attritional contain or superior firepower for the french. yes, i know, the french have the inferior doctrines, but that's what i want. so essentially, what suits the sides more, infiltration or blitzkrieg for mercs, and attritional contain or superior firepower for french? thanks ^_^
in relation with my project http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9199324#post9199324 i need doctrines for the two forces. here are the planned forces for the scenario:
Mercs:
1 HQ ’45 w/Engineer ‘45, 2 Marine ’43 w/ Imp Rocket Arty, 3 Airborne ’43 w/Imp Rocket Arty, 3 Destroyer ’45 w/ Fire Control ‘45, 5 Naval Transports, 5 Air Transports
French:
HQ ’41, 14 Infantry ’18, 1 Cavalry VI, 5 Infantry ’39 w/Basic Arty, 2 Mech ’45 w/Adv SP Arty (late-game French Foreign Legion entry), 3 Naval Transport (late-game French Foreign Legion entry), 1 Light Cruiser ’48, 5 Destroyer ’45, 1 Naval Transport
i basically want the mercs to be an elite infantry force that can stop the french cold 1 for 1 anywhere, with far higher org and morale, while the french are inferior in ability, but have numbers. currently, infiltration and blitzkrieg are the two doctrines i'm considering for mercs, and attritional contain or superior firepower for the french. yes, i know, the french have the inferior doctrines, but that's what i want. so essentially, what suits the sides more, infiltration or blitzkrieg for mercs, and attritional contain or superior firepower for french? thanks ^_^
Wow, quite a case of forum necromancy
Anyway, Mercs should be Infiltration - given that they are marines and airborne, Infiltration will make them kick ass at night (which makes sence). Besides, they don't sound like blitzkrieg guys. Blitzkrieg is highly mechanized large force kind of doctrine. Mercenaries are more of irregular special forces types (which fit into infiltration).
To French, I'd give Attritional Containment - this is their historical doctrine, after all.
Very true. Look at what you start with, the specialties of your tech teams, your access to blueprints and so on. What can you research fastest and easiest? Then build your forces around your doctrines (this goes for navies as well).
As UK or other starting Allies I love Infiltration. As USA If I can steal all Germany's doctrines I can usually research Spearhead (which I prefer) faster than my starting doctrine.
Blitzkrieg
Blitzkrieg actually does really well in the only game.. I mean the early game.
But in all honesty when Germany and the S. U. attack people who aren't each other in 1936 the game is basically Germany vs the S.U. by the time infiltration peaks.
In all honesty if some doctrine sucked like crap all game but then became +1000/+1000 in 1955 you guys would be all over how good it is.
Blitzkrieg actually does really well in the only game.. I mean the early game.
But in all honesty when Germany and the S. U. attack people who aren't each other in 1936 the game is basically Germany vs the S.U. by the time infiltration peaks.
In all honesty if some doctrine sucked like crap all game but then became +1000/+1000 in 1955 you guys would be all over how good it is.
Most of the doctrines are semi decent. Usually whatever your tech team is good at researching is the best one. Also depends on what country you are as well as some countries don't get as many free techs as Germany/USA/UK.
The Germans really only have to research 1 land doctrine before 41 and they have excellent tech team for it. Other countries might have to research 3-4+. Also buy switching you may end up with a slightly better army but you have just devoted one of your tech teams that could be researching other techs. As the USA for example I want good naval/air/lad doctrines and new technologies which often leads to a shortage of tech teams. Germany only has that problem if they go down a naval path early on and the war for them can be over by 42 making opposing doctrines more or less irrelevent. Germany can France 39, Sealion 40, Barbarossa 41, and invade the USA and annex it in 42.
The Armageddon scenario gives you a better representation of the doctrines as no country gets freebies at the start if the game and most of the countries have a decent tech team for 2 doctrines so you can pickwhatever one you like the best- usually spearhead if you can as the games more or less over by 1940. Unlike Germany in 36 GC you will have to research all of the blitzkrieg doctrines though as Germany gets an obscene amount for free. I find the octrines that give discounts on units are a bit useless as for the most part the army is built by 1940 and you're running low on manpower. Exception being free doctrine techs you start with or can research early (38 or so). Most of the time you are best focused on the obvious one unless you know the game will be running longer than usual due to a higher difficulty level, a late starting date (Doomsday scenario) or you deliberately don't go for a quick victory as a major power where you crush the allies/axis/comintern in 42/43.
My current game is a 1948 FRG game and the invasion of Russia with the American doctrines is slower than the traditional blitzkrieg it seems as your troops seem low on organization after a few provinces.
The Germans really only have to research 1 land doctrine before 41 and they have excellent tech team for it. Other countries might have to research 3-4+. Also buy switching you may end up with a slightly better army but you have just devoted one of your tech teams that could be researching other techs. As the USA for example I want good naval/air/lad doctrines and new technologies which often leads to a shortage of tech teams. Germany only has that problem if they go down a naval path early on and the war for them can be over by 42 making opposing doctrines more or less irrelevent. Germany can France 39, Sealion 40, Barbarossa 41, and invade the USA and annex it in 42.
The Armageddon scenario gives you a better representation of the doctrines as no country gets freebies at the start if the game and most of the countries have a decent tech team for 2 doctrines so you can pickwhatever one you like the best- usually spearhead if you can as the games more or less over by 1940. Unlike Germany in 36 GC you will have to research all of the blitzkrieg doctrines though as Germany gets an obscene amount for free. I find the octrines that give discounts on units are a bit useless as for the most part the army is built by 1940 and you're running low on manpower. Exception being free doctrine techs you start with or can research early (38 or so). Most of the time you are best focused on the obvious one unless you know the game will be running longer than usual due to a higher difficulty level, a late starting date (Doomsday scenario) or you deliberately don't go for a quick victory as a major power where you crush the allies/axis/comintern in 42/43.
My current game is a 1948 FRG game and the invasion of Russia with the American doctrines is slower than the traditional blitzkrieg it seems as your troops seem low on organization after a few provinces.
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The value of Infiltration and its night attack bonus was made plain to me in Remble's Setting Sun AAR. He uses it incredibly well especially when holding off the Russians as Japan. If you've got a spare week or two it might be worth looking into
Warning... Thread Necromancy...
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As this thread does have some advantages it will remain open..
If the last post in the thread is over 1 years old let it rest next time.
Didn't realize it was dead
I linked to it from some wiki content, read it and posted without realizing the last post was 2 years old.
I linked to it from some wiki content, read it and posted without realizing the last post was 2 years old.
