What are optimal Divison Templates?

[kgmi]

As someone who is coming from EU4 and Vicky2, I simply can't figure out how to build optimal Divison templates / Armies in this game.
Right now I am going for 20CW Battlions with 7infantry and 2 Artillery for most of the game and I am doing quite OK against the A.I. with this.

However, my questions now are the following:
-What Support Companies should I research when and for which Divison? (I usually do Hospital first and maintenance for Vehicle Divisons).
-When is a good time to put AT into my Battalions and should I go over the 20CW or replace something for them?
-Are there scenarios where I should use something else instead of 20CW (like 10 or 40CW e.g.)
-When and how should I use Light and Heavy tanks, do you put them into Motorized/Mechanized squads only?
-Is cavalry worth putting into my combat Divisons in early game, for flanking for example? (Right now I only use them for rebel suppression)
-Should I bother with towed AA and AA tanks or rather try spamming Fighters for Air Superiority?
-When is it a good time to start researching doctrine trees?

This would be everything that comes to my mind right now. I am almost at 100h playtime and I just can't seem to figure these things out, so your input is very appreciated.

 

[afb]

Right now I am going for 20CW Battlions with 7infantry and 2 Artillery for most of the game and I am doing quite OK against the A.I. with this.

Yeah, that's a solid start. You can also try sprinkling in cheap armored vehicles (such as HSPAA) to be less vulnerable against pure infantry.

-What Support Companies should I research when and for which Divison? (I usually do Hospital first and maintenance for Vehicle Divisons).

Hospital is good, especially if MP is limited, but it also helps preserve xp. More artillery is always nice. Engineers are pretty versatile. Signal companies can be a huge boost as they let units get into battle faster. Maintenance is good for armor.

-When is a good time to put AT into my Battalions and should I go over the 20CW or replace something for them?

Depends on who you're facing and what kind of armor they are fielding. Some theaters you might never need them and if your own armor is good, you might be able to do without as well. I would definitely replace so you stay at 20CW. Or use support AT.

-Are there scenarios where I should use something else instead of 20CW (like 10 or 40CW e.g.)

10W pure inf can be good on defense, especially with radio and signal companies. You have lots of divisions and therefore lots of organization to chew through. You can reinforce quickly and the same units can potentially get back in the fight many times. It costs tons of MP, though! 10W can also be great for theaters that have a lower troops/province ratio: coastguard, low infra-fronts (like Africa), etc.
40W can be good for stacking really powerful bonuses on top of each other for some really powerful divisions. Especially if you control divisions yourself, as you have fewer important units to move around.

-When and how should I use Light and Heavy tanks, do you put them into Motorized/Mechanized squads only?

Light can be good early on as you can start producing in '36. I like to phase them out later, though they can get new life by being upgraded to '41 type variants (LSPArt, etc.)
Heavies are best as a counter to mediums. Or if you have tons of chromium available.

-Is cavalry worth putting into my combat Divisons in early game, for flanking for example? (Right now I only use them for rebel suppression)

They can be useful, but they are not improved by doctrines, so the further along you get there, the more your cavalry will have a drop-off. For nations with a decent industry, real armor or motorized is probably a better bet pretty quickly, but sure, they can be ok in '39.

-Should I bother with towed AA and AA tanks or rather try spamming Fighters for Air Superiority?

Depends on the country. Majors should aim for air superiority but various AA can be a decent and less industry-intensive mitigation. Try not to fall too far behind in research unless you are very sure of your air superiority - if things go the wrong way, you want to be able to start a production quickly.

-When is it a good time to start researching doctrine trees?

1/1 1936. Seriously, for land doctrines, it is never too early. It will make a huge difference in your combat ability and you want as much as possible done before any war. Naval doctrines can be rushed a little more as you can research several at the same time and for most countries they are much less crucial. Air doctrines are a lot like land except that many countries do not have the industry to contend anyway.

 

[kgmi]

Thank you for your quick reply, this really helped a lot. But what does HSPAA and LSPA(rt) stand for?

 

[afb]

Thank you for your quick reply, this really helped a lot. But what does HSPAA and LSPA(rt) stand for?

HSPAA: Heavy Self-Propelled Anti-Air.
LSPArt: Light Self-Propelled Artillery.
There are plenty of related combinations that you can probably guess yourself.

 

[CaptainCC]

HeavySelfPropelledAntiAir and LightSelfPropelledArtillery

 

[CaptainCC]

HeavySelfPropelledAntiAir and LightSelfPropelledArtillery

Dammit, a second too slow!

 

[kgmi]

HSPAA: Heavy Self-Propelled Anti-Air.
LSPArt: Light Self-Propelled Artillery.
There are plenty of related combinations that you can probably guess yourself.

Yes, now it makes sense and in the late game I probably switch to the Modern tank variant completely right? Since it seems to be the most cost efficient tank compared to heavy and super heavy

Oh and I forgot to mention one more thing, Rocket Artillery, when and how should these be used compared to regular artillery?

 

[ithillid]

Hospital is good, especially if MP is limited, but it also helps preserve xp. More artillery is always nice. Engineers are pretty versatile. Signal companies can be a huge boost as they let units get into battle faster. Maintenance is good for armor.

I would say that Maintenance is good for everything now that you can salvage from the pool of equipment that the enemy loses. It may be a pretty minor percentage, but every extra day that your equipment reserves last is a good day.

Yes, now it makes sense and in the late game I probably switch to the Modern tank variant completely right? Since it seems to be the most cost efficient tank compared to heavy and super heavy

Modern tanks are by far the best option. Superheavy can have some use in garrison divisions if you are fighting a multi front war, but most of the time, mechanized+modern is a better option.

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

There is no definite general answer to this. I many cases you will limit yourself to 20 or 10 width divisions. You will only meet the cap of 80 and 120 combat width if you have more than 8 divisions in a province as 10 width, and more than 4 divisions of 20 combat widt. If you have 1-2 divisions for each province you can go with everything you want and you should focus on the right stat setup for that situation.

I see so many people using 20 width in situation where they don't really have to. I don't understand why you would gimp your self in that way.

I have done entire world conquests with 26 width, 30 width, 18 width and never got the exceeding combat width bonus.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

7/2 is not really optimal for anything but letting the AI shred itself while you sit there entrenched.

From that perspective it's pretty good, stack a bunch of those along a line with enough piercing to beat tanks, wait until the AI is < 50% strength, then attack with a couple 40 width divisions to create encirclements.

I see so many people using 20 width in situation where they don't really have to. I don't understand why you would gimp your self in that way.

You want to consistently have attack > their defense breakthrough by as much as possible while having their attack < your breakthrough/defense. 20 width often accomplishes this in SP. In some cases, 10 width can also accomplish this.

If you had the industry to support it, especially with new chains of command it would make sense to just spam 40 width in most cases, since those do the most damage and take the least. Few nations have the industry for that, and you can make a case that industry is better spent making more tank 40 width while leaving infantry frontline coverage smaller.

 

[mjb2k]

I think a new optimal division may be a 17-2. 17 Infantry and 2 Artillery. It has good defense and nearly parable soft attack to a 14-4. 40 widths are superior in pretty much any attacking scenario. They also simplify the micro and if you are playing countries like Japan or Germany or Soviets, you're going to number in the hundreds of 20 widths, good luck with 15+ generals and microing them all.

 

[ithillid]

10 width for specialist divisions, especially marines. Gives you enough divisions to fill out your needs.
20 width for mechanized and armored divisions. Here it is a balance between having enough divisions and having good divisions.
40 width is great for infantry divisions because they are relatively cheap to arm up.

 

[davej]

Yeah, that's a solid start. You can also try sprinkling in cheap armored vehicles (such as HSPAA) to be less vulnerable against pure infantry.

cheap? the lowest end costs 25 production. Who can do that with any significance in the early game? And why would anti air be good against pure infantry divisions? Just asking.

 

[ithillid]

And why would anti air be good against pure infantry divisions? Just asking.

Very high soft attack for their width, and they also increase hardness, which is something that a lot of infantry units have a hard time against.

cheap? the lowest end costs 25 production. Who can do that with any significance in the early game?

Don't look at the production per unit, but the production cost per block. In fact, the Light and Medium SPAA are cheaper than motorized units. A light is 150 production, and medium is only 144. Comparatively, motorized units are 155.

 

[Kaosium]

cheap? the lowest end costs 25 production. Who can do that with any significance in the early game? And why would anti air be good against pure infantry divisions? Just asking.

You don't need very many to fill out a battalion, it's like 20 or something. Just counting production, that's about what LTs cost.

They also give armor and provide an attack against CAS which might be the reason you're facing pure infantry divisions: it's just there to keep you in battle so you can get strafed repeatedly.

 

[TorAndreKongelf]

7/2 is not really optimal for anything but letting the AI shred itself while you sit there entrenched.

From that perspective it's pretty good, stack a bunch of those along a line with enough piercing to beat tanks, wait until the AI is < 50% strength, then attack with a couple 40 width divisions to create encirclements.



You want to consistently have attack > their defense breakthrough by as much as possible while having their attack < your breakthrough/defense. 20 width often accomplishes this in SP. In some cases, 10 width can also accomplish this.

If you had the industry to support it, especially with new chains of command it would make sense to just spam 40 width in most cases, since those do the most damage and take the least. Few nations have the industry for that, and you can make a case that industry is better spent making more tank 40 width while leaving infantry frontline coverage smaller.

Try to do this as Canada for example. Low industry and so many provinces.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Try to do this as Canada for example. Low industry and so many provinces.

Last patch I just spammed their cavalry as much as possible and won by moving into empty provinces. I suspect this still works current patch, but you have to be more careful since AI is better at encircling extended divisions.

However such is not a setup that actually wins by attacking anything.

 

[afb]

You don't need very many to fill out a battalion, it's like 20 or something. Just counting production, that's about what LTs cost.

I think it's actually only 8 or maybe 12 for HSPAA. It is ridiculously few.

 

[Kaosium]

I think it's actually only 8 or maybe 12 for HSPAA. It is ridiculously few.

Then I stand corrected, I initially thought of a lower number but revised my estimate as it seemed too low and I don't have any saved games where I built any to check anymore due to the new release.

 

[davej]

Very high soft attack for their width, and they also increase hardness, which is something that a lot of infantry units have a hard time against.


Don't look at the production per unit, but the production cost per block. In fact, the Light and Medium SPAA are cheaper than motorized units. A light is 150 production, and medium is only 144. Comparatively, motorized units are 155.

You don't need very many to fill out a battalion, it's like 20 or something. Just counting production, that's about what LTs cost.

They also give armor and provide an attack against CAS which might be the reason you're facing pure infantry divisions: it's just there to keep you in battle so you can get strafed repeatedly.

Well, you would never get heavy anti air for the soft attack. Even art1 blows it out of the water:

1 batallion of Artillery 1 (+first improvement, you can get just as fast):

cost: 126
SA: +32.4

1 batallion of Heavy Anti Air :

Cost: 200 (+58%)
SA : +6.7 (-79%)

I could see against CAS, but I've noticed in early SP battles the air game is insignificant.
I never considered the hardness factor. It's interesting. But early SP game, the AI is pretty absent with hard units too..